We are planning a renovation of a property to run as a holiday let. I have been reading a lot of threads on here about the best type of flooring (dog friendly) and it seems that tiles would be ideal. I really don't want to have carpets and would prefer it to be tiled throughout. However I don't think it is going to be possible to have underfloor heating (due to cost of installing in a concrete floor) so I am worried about it feeling very cold underfoot. Does anyone here have tiles without underfloor heating, and if so, would you recommend it?
The other options would be 'posh vinyl' (like Karndean or similar) or wooden flooring. But, as I would like to welcome dogs, I am a bit concerned about these getting damaged/ scratched.
Any opinions gratefully received! Thank you.
tiles with no underfloor heating - bad idea? (UK)
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Beachcondo
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I wouldn't install tiles without under floor heating in northern Europe.
There's electrical cables that don't fill that much and if you have another source of heating, you can put them with wider distances to just give a pleasant feel to foot, not for heating the rooms (cheaper on the electric bill).
Compare this to stepping on a cold floor and how uninviting this would feel to your guests.
There's electrical cables that don't fill that much and if you have another source of heating, you can put them with wider distances to just give a pleasant feel to foot, not for heating the rooms (cheaper on the electric bill).
Compare this to stepping on a cold floor and how uninviting this would feel to your guests.
Pessimists only get positive surprises.
My properties are in Norfolk. My first was a show home and had tiles in the kitchen area, laminate in the living area and carpets in the bedroom. 8/9 years on the laminate and carpet are reaching the end of their life. The tiles look exactly the same as the day they were laid.
When I bought property two I regurbished from scratch and chose light coloured ceramic tiles throughout the whole property. Easy to clean and super dog friendly. I have no gas, so the only option was electric underfloor. The electric mats are prone to fail and have already started doing so in other properties on site, so if I was putting in underfloor I would only ever use a wet system supplied by a boiler.
I supply a rug in the lounge and put small rugs or bath mats in the other rooms so you can stand on something warm when getting undressed etc. In the UK we wear slippers, so I wouldn't hesitate to install tiles again without underfloor heating. As long as the property is well insulated and heated adequately, you should be fine. After four years of guests, the tiles are still immaculate and I've never had a complaint about a cold floor.
When I bought property two I regurbished from scratch and chose light coloured ceramic tiles throughout the whole property. Easy to clean and super dog friendly. I have no gas, so the only option was electric underfloor. The electric mats are prone to fail and have already started doing so in other properties on site, so if I was putting in underfloor I would only ever use a wet system supplied by a boiler.
I supply a rug in the lounge and put small rugs or bath mats in the other rooms so you can stand on something warm when getting undressed etc. In the UK we wear slippers, so I wouldn't hesitate to install tiles again without underfloor heating. As long as the property is well insulated and heated adequately, you should be fine. After four years of guests, the tiles are still immaculate and I've never had a complaint about a cold floor.
We have one property in the West of Ireland where I can assure you the weather is more often than not worse than anywhere in the UK (although I've heard many say "there's no such thing as bad weather, only the wrong clothes")!
It's a cottage/bungalow with concrete floors throughout. We have 2/3 tiled floors (no floor heating) but I'd have no reservations about tiling the rest at whatever time existing floor coverings require replacement. I'd be jumping out of bed straight into a pair of slippers and can accept a cold floor for what it is. I haven't had a dog since I was a child and she lived to the ripe old age of 14 despite sleeping outside in a cold shed in the same way that most other dogs in our area did at that time.
I agree with Nemo - would prefer a closed wet system if I did go for underfloor heating. I would like it, just couldn't justify the upheaval or expense of it.
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It's a cottage/bungalow with concrete floors throughout. We have 2/3 tiled floors (no floor heating) but I'd have no reservations about tiling the rest at whatever time existing floor coverings require replacement. I'd be jumping out of bed straight into a pair of slippers and can accept a cold floor for what it is. I haven't had a dog since I was a child and she lived to the ripe old age of 14 despite sleeping outside in a cold shed in the same way that most other dogs in our area did at that time.
I agree with Nemo - would prefer a closed wet system if I did go for underfloor heating. I would like it, just couldn't justify the upheaval or expense of it.
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jenboyle1959
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Hmn, I'm disagreeing I'm afraid. We have ceramic tiles in the kitchen and hall and bedroom area in our smallest flat, and they are freezing- though to be fair it does seem a very chilly flat anyway due to it's facing north.
We have some amazing Kardean tiles in the kitchen at home- they are as tough as old boots and seem to withstand anything you can throw at them. ~they've been down three years and look like new. They were expensive to buy and lay, but they are rigid and don't scratch at all. I'd lay that in my flat ,if I had my time again. They also aren't slippery ,so are great for older dogs that might find laminate or tiles a bit awkward to stand up on.
We have some amazing Kardean tiles in the kitchen at home- they are as tough as old boots and seem to withstand anything you can throw at them. ~they've been down three years and look like new. They were expensive to buy and lay, but they are rigid and don't scratch at all. I'd lay that in my flat ,if I had my time again. They also aren't slippery ,so are great for older dogs that might find laminate or tiles a bit awkward to stand up on.
We have a combination of both types of underfloor heating. There's no doubt that it is nice to have under tiles but I wouldn't consider it vital. In one of our bathrooms I have a very tough vinyl wood effect tile (they do other designs). They are made by a company called Gerfloor. They are not cheap but not overly expensive, and they have proven to be extremely hard wearing, look very realistic, and are easy to clean. I can thoroughly recommend them if you don't want the cold feeling of ceramic tiles.
I assume you've had quotes for the u/floor heating installation, but I'm not sure I understand the reference to problems with a concrete floor - unless it's the fact that the floor level would end up being raised several inches which could well be a deal-breaker I guess. We had wet U/F heating installed in our barn conversion which is on concrete floors, and it's ideal as the whole floor becomes a heat store. BUT - thinking about it, there's insulation on the floor, the pipework on that, and a layer of screeding on top of that so it stacks up. Hmmmm..... Maybe I see your problem.
Non glazed tiles "feel" warmer underfoot than glazed, and rugs by the beds and one or two in the lounge may well be enough to break up a large area that appears cold to the touch; I still wouldn't dismiss tiles.
My experience of vinyl-type tiles is with Karndean which was laid in part of our house by a previous owner, and Amtico which we had laid in a kitchen at a previous house. Amtico is to Karndean what Karndean is to everything else - and Karndean is tough. Amtico is unbelievably tough, will outlast pretty much anything, but with a price to match - and Karndean is expensive enough. However, in a conversation with the Amtico fitter, he pointed out that because vinyl tiles have joints between them none of them were suited to areas that are likely to stay wet, and cited teenagers' bathrooms as an example he'd hit. The question then is whether guests are going to be sufficiently considerate to mop up any serious puddles in the bathroom, or rush off to enjoy their day. Decisions, decisions.
Non glazed tiles "feel" warmer underfoot than glazed, and rugs by the beds and one or two in the lounge may well be enough to break up a large area that appears cold to the touch; I still wouldn't dismiss tiles.
My experience of vinyl-type tiles is with Karndean which was laid in part of our house by a previous owner, and Amtico which we had laid in a kitchen at a previous house. Amtico is to Karndean what Karndean is to everything else - and Karndean is tough. Amtico is unbelievably tough, will outlast pretty much anything, but with a price to match - and Karndean is expensive enough. However, in a conversation with the Amtico fitter, he pointed out that because vinyl tiles have joints between them none of them were suited to areas that are likely to stay wet, and cited teenagers' bathrooms as an example he'd hit. The question then is whether guests are going to be sufficiently considerate to mop up any serious puddles in the bathroom, or rush off to enjoy their day. Decisions, decisions.
I have just laid a tiled floor in a shower room (well, not me, personally 
) and I chose non-slip unglazed tiles. There is no underfloor heating and they are really not that cold.
On Amtico - I can only say that it was the best thing we ever did to our house in 1980 when we tiled our kitchen with a quarry tile look version. Apart from some 'toning' which you get anyway with real quarry tiles they are as good as new after 35 years of massive traffic in the kitchen (6 of us and four dogs for many years) and the easiest thing to keep. I even gave up buying the expensive Amtico cleaner after a while and just mop them with anything that comes to hand. However, I don't know if the quality of present day offerings are the same. They are not cold to walk on.
) and I chose non-slip unglazed tiles. There is no underfloor heating and they are really not that cold.On Amtico - I can only say that it was the best thing we ever did to our house in 1980 when we tiled our kitchen with a quarry tile look version. Apart from some 'toning' which you get anyway with real quarry tiles they are as good as new after 35 years of massive traffic in the kitchen (6 of us and four dogs for many years) and the easiest thing to keep. I even gave up buying the expensive Amtico cleaner after a while and just mop them with anything that comes to hand. However, I don't know if the quality of present day offerings are the same. They are not cold to walk on.
Thank you for all of your responses...very useful.
I think the issue with the concrete floor is that it would either have to be dug out to fit or, as said above, the floor level would have to rise.
Lots to think about...perhaps I could install electric underfloor heating in the bathroom areas as they are small, and then just have rugs as others have suggested in the other rooms. Karndean/ Amtico is very appealing but I have a feeling it may be beyond our budget.
Thanks again.
I think the issue with the concrete floor is that it would either have to be dug out to fit or, as said above, the floor level would have to rise.
Lots to think about...perhaps I could install electric underfloor heating in the bathroom areas as they are small, and then just have rugs as others have suggested in the other rooms. Karndean/ Amtico is very appealing but I have a feeling it may be beyond our budget.
Thanks again.
I've just had an Amtico floor laid in my kitchen. I love the look of it, but I have to say I am really disappointed with the wear. It is a few weeks old and badly scratched in a couple of places. One was caused probably by some gravel on the underside of a the shoes of a workman, the other by a wooden chair scraping forwards and backwards before we put some felt pads on it. It's not visible until you go right down close to the floor and look, but I'm concerned that as dirt builds up in it, as inevitably it does, the scratch marks will start to show. I wonder if the quality of what they produce now is not as good as a few years ago, despite the guarantee it offers?
That would be a good compromise. We have both types installed in our wetroom. It means that if the water filled underfloor heating is not on, then the bathroom floor can still be warmed up and it helps to dry it out after use.bythesea wrote:perhaps I could install electric underfloor heating in the bathroom areas as they are small, and then just have rugs as others have suggested in the other rooms.
Interesting. The clear wearing layer is very thick (or was) which is part of the reason why the tiles are so stiff. Given how thick that layer is before you hit the actual colour, I wonder if it's possible to polish scratches out with a suitable compound? One for Amtico I guess.Nemo wrote:I've just had an Amtico floor laid in my kitchen. I love the look of it, but I have to say I am really disappointed with the wear. It is a few weeks old and badly scratched in a couple of places. One was caused probably by some gravel on the underside of a the shoes of a workman, the other by a wooden chair scraping forwards and backwards before we put some felt pads on it. It's not visible until you go right down close to the floor and look, but I'm concerned that as dirt builds up in it, as inevitably it does, the scratch marks will start to show. I wonder if the quality of what they produce now is not as good as a few years ago, despite the guarantee it offers?
Back to the OP, my own feeling is that some form of ceramic tiling (ours are porcelain, no idea what difference it all makes) is the most durable, easily maintained (far more than stone etc etc) flooring, ideal for a holiday let where you need to try and avoid damage that you can't deal with in a changeover (there are some wooden floor horror stories) and cost effective. Oh, and it looks really good too (subjective of course, and depends on the nature of the property!)
None of those factors rely on underfloor heating (which is kind of turning the question around a bit, I know).
A towel radiator in a bathroom is quite likely to provide a higher perceived comfort level than U/F heating - you're going to have a bathmat to stand on anyway.
Tiled floor and U/F heating are a brilliant combination, give good overall warmth, save wall space - but you still need rugs here and there for additional comfort/appearance. Given that floors are primarily for walking on, if the overall background heating is comfortable, is it a big disadvantage if the floor isn't warm to the touch?
ETA - crossed with Bunny's comment above on the compromise solution - and I'm guessing that electric undertile heating mats - if installed correctly - are more reliable than they used to be?
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PW in Polemi
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OK I know we're not in the UK, but tiled floors are the norm over here. Lovely and cool in the summer, easy to clean - but any crockery or glassware dropped on them tends to shatter. And in winter, they're perishing cold - the cold seeps up through the concrete floor - even with rugs, feet get (and stay) cold. We've got underfloor heating at home, so toasty toes, but when visiting friends with no u/f heating, even with rugs, my feet get very cold.
So I would say that if you propose letting your property in the cold/er months, and if your preference is for tiled floors, then underfloor heating is a good idea.
Toasty toes rule, OK!
So I would say that if you propose letting your property in the cold/er months, and if your preference is for tiled floors, then underfloor heating is a good idea.
Toasty toes rule, OK!
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We have ceramic tiles throughout the ground floor of one of our cottages (Brimbles, if you want to have a look at the Photos) and quarry tiles throughout the kitchen, bathroom and ground floor bedroom at our second cottage (Granary)
We've put plenty of rugs in the bedrooms but the floor is never really cold IYSWIM. Obviously in the winter when the heating has not been on there is a difference but no guest has every made a comment.
We didn't want underfloor heating as both our cottages have Cob walls (both barn conversions) but the radiators do a good job and personally, I don't like vinyl. Yes, you do get a few breakages, but maintenance and cleaning is terribly easy.
Nemo has stayed at both - she might have an opinion.
We've put plenty of rugs in the bedrooms but the floor is never really cold IYSWIM. Obviously in the winter when the heating has not been on there is a difference but no guest has every made a comment.
We didn't want underfloor heating as both our cottages have Cob walls (both barn conversions) but the radiators do a good job and personally, I don't like vinyl. Yes, you do get a few breakages, but maintenance and cleaning is terribly easy.
Nemo has stayed at both - she might have an opinion.
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