Is it or isn't it?

[Ben McNevis]

I received this one this morning. What do you make of it?
--------------------------------------------
Dear Sir or Madam,
We are running Tour and Travel Agent Business located in Bali Island Indonesia. We have been servicing worldwide tour and holiday destination for years. Based on your site reference and available services, we will offer you best business cooperation by choosing your facilities and services as one of our client's holiday destination. The client will stay in our location in Bali before they continue to their next holiday destination. So I have to prepare their next destination before their arrival time here to ensure their next holiday has been arranged professionally and be an unforgettable holiday moment. Our clients are from Japan, Singapore and Taiwan and some other countries. The estimated time schedule is for January - March 2008. For initial deal we have some business proposal's points below :
1. We need availability of the accommodation for stay during January - March 2008
2. Client will be couple or group.
3. All reservation info will be our authorization and will forward to the client after get fix price, schedule and agency commission deal from the host.
4. Client or one of the group leader will pay direct to you in full amount in advance after get detail of the reservation from the agency.
5. All Payment will be made by Major Credit Cards ( Visa , Master Card etc)
6. The host ( you ) verify the guest's payment and send our agency commission fee when they payment has been fully approved and the money has been showed up on your bank account
7. We need info about your cancellation policy

Please let me know if that matters above workable with you so we can go ahead with a fair and good business.
We are looking forward to hear from you soon.
Thank you.

--
Best Regards
Made Aryana

Balinesia Tour and Travel
Jl. Danau Beratan 45 Kuta Beach
Bali - Indonesia 80361
Phone : +62-856-4362-4499
+62-274-788-1100
http://www.balinesia.com

[Mountain Goat]

Ben

Dodgy. If you search LMH for Bali you find 2-3 similar on threads.

MG

[Margaret]

No, no, no, don't touch it. We went some way down the line with one of these a while back - even getting to correspond with some socalled officer in the Japanese police force who was the client (at least it was a bit more interesting than the usual scam). Wanted us to pay a bonus to the Bali travel agent. Disappeared without trace when we refused to get involved in that part of the transaction.

[Mountain Goat]

Japanese police force

Maybe they've been picking up tips from our Force thread?

MG

[losttheplot]

Looks like the sort of scam that nearly got me this week. This is how it goes.

You take the booking and get a load of emails about how special the clients is (mine was a UNICEF emissary) and that they can't yet pay because they are in a remote district on urgent and vital business. The credit card payment arrives 10 days before theri arrival followed by a swift request for a bank transfer to cover the agency fees. (thankfully I haven't got round to internet banking so by the time I got to the bank things were looking positively fishy). There are a few more emails from the agent offering more guests and involving you in recommending restaurants etc.

The arrival day comes (and goes) with no sign of the prestigous UNICEF emmissary. The next day an email arrives saying that the emissary's wife is in a coma after a car crash and could I look on this as a Force Majeure (the English has been broken up to this point but they are fluent in French legal terminology)- I feel terrible and offer to refund 50% on the credit card (I know..I was brought up this way!) only to be told that the credit card was destroyed in the car accident and the bank has cancelled the card. So now I am certain that this is a scam and contact Mastercard and WorldPay for advice.

The next day the chargeback arrives and a whole load of emails from Worldpay about fraud prevention. I was still getting refund demands from the emissary and the agent (emails sent around 5 minutes apart) up to the point that I mentioned fraud and now they don't seem to want to talk to me.

Thankfully I didn't send them any money and have used this experience to tighten up my cancellation and refund policy to make it clear that I will not handle agency fees or refund card payments except by credit card. So I have lost around £20 in credit card transfer fees, some personal pride but learnt a valuable lesson so all in all I think I won!!

Hope this is helpful I now have a rule that I will trust up to the point that it costs.

[Mountain Goat]

That's really interesting.

Would you have gone as far with it if you'd read LMH beforehand? What was the language quality like - OK? Was it Yahoo emails?

MG

[losttheplot]

I did check the names by Google and do some scam surfing but yes, after the event I found that this is a standard scam scenario by looking at LMH more closely. Its our first year of letting so we have learnt a lot (and still have a lot to learn) but I would rather not become cynical about things. We have had some wonderful guests from Europe, Australia, NZ and the UK, but I am learning to beware of anything slightly odd, especially where they involve you with too much information (honeymoon, anniversary, flash credentials, family information). The English was not brilliant but this is also often the case with Europeans so it's not necessarily a scam indicator.

I have asked for visa details in the past (the Home office helpline advised me of this) for an enquirer from Nigeria looking for a longer term stay- that one went very quiet!

I don't know how else to flush out the other scams, there must be a killer question to sort out the fake from the real! Any suggestions?

[Margaret]

I am finding that asking them how they will pay and then telling them that we don't do cheques or banker's drafts works with a high percentage. But more and more are offering payment by credit card and you don't find out until later.
We did have a booking for 25 nights for last August from Kuwait. We agonised long and hard over that one, telling ourselves we should not be automatically (racially) prejudiced. The payment method was credit card, as always for the full amount of the rental, and, as it was more than 6 months prior, we decided it was a risk we could take. In the end, he did cancel, in July I think, and we relet about two thirds of his stay and refunded that amount in full. So it was apparently genuine.
A universal killer question would be very useful indeed now that we know they are getting so clever but I guess they will find a way round it!

[Mountain Goat]

I have asked for visa details in the past

Now that is a good idea, thanks. Yes, fax us your visa - brilliant.

Having looked at their IP address I do like to steer the conversation around to weather in Lagos, that is a bit of a correspondence killer. Then shop them into the abuse dept. at their email provider - cruel but kind.

And watch out for anything starting 'Dear One' or studded with 'God blesses'.

I still think they're getting better.

MG

[Margaret]

But they can legitimately say that they need accommodation confirmation details from us as visa support!

[losttheplot]

I would not be too happy to give them visa support - slightly worried that they would outstay their visa and I wouldn't be able to get them to vacate the property too easily (or at least in time for future bookings). Also the lease terms of my apartment prohibit accomodating asylum seekers so it becomes an even greater risk. Margate is just recovering from an influx of asylum seekers so they are particularly sensitive in the area. I have lengthy debates in my head about the fine line between racial prejudice and business prudence- no conclusion yet.

The trouble is that enquiries in off season look very tempting and the rotten little scammers know it! We are more likely to compromise just to get a booking and if I had stopped to really wonder why someone would want to fly half way across the world to stay in a seaside town in the UK in the winter then I might have saved myself a lot of trouble. I have since learned that I don't need to be so desperate for winter bookings. We are getting a reasonable occupancy rate from UK and EU guests without having to take risks. Perhaps if I had asked some more searching questions (flight times, reason for visiting the area, passport details for all the guests) together with an insistance on full payment with 2 months of arrival and zero refund policy last minute cancellations then it would have scared them off. I wouldn't do this for all enquiries- but I will adopt this policy for the iffy ones.

Sorry Mountain Goat, didn't answer your question about email addresses, they were fastmail and jetemail addresses.

[Giddy Goat]

Having looked at their IP address I do like to steer the conversation around to weather in Lagos, that is a bit of a correspondence killer.MG

Tee hee!!!

[Ben McNevis]

Having looked at their IP address I do like to steer the conversation around to weather in Lagos

(MG)

I like it. And that set me thinking... maybe they are expecting a reply in poor English too. Then temptation got the better of me. I received this one yesterday:

On Nov 11, 2007 4:42 PM, MRS SANDRA BROWN <contactsandrabrown@yahoo.com> wrote:
> HELLO ,
> I'M MRS SANDRA BROWN,THE CAMPAIGN SUPERVISOR ON AIDS IN SWEDEN . IT'S MY
> PLEASURE ,TO LET YOU KNOW THAT AM SINCERELLY HAPPY TO COME ACROSS YOUR
> ACCOMMODATION AND AM HERE TO MAKE AN ARRANGEMENT WITH YOU ON HOW YOU CAN BE
> PAID,BECUASE,ONE OF OUR STAFF WILL BE ARRIVING BY DECEMBER 10 2007FOR
> CAMPAIGN AND HE BE LEAVING JANUARY 05 2008 .I WILL REALLY APPRICIATE IF YOU
> CAN BE HONEST WITH ME,BY GIVEN ME THE PRESENCE CONDITION OF THE PLACE,WHY
> A'M ASKING YOU THESE ,IS TO LET YOU UNDERSTAND ,THAT I RESIDING IN SWEDEN
> AND AM ON ASSIGHMENT TO FRANCE TO SUPERVICE ONE OF OUR STAFF WHO IS THERE TO
> MAKE CAMPAIGN AND HAVE ONCE HAD FROM MY COLLEQUES,THAT SOME PASTE ADVERT ON
> NET ARE NOT REALY.
>
> I'M SO SORRY IF MY EXPRESSION MIGTH MAKE YOU ANNOYED.I'M SAYING THESE
> JUST,BECAUSE I WOULD'NT BE HAPPY TO PAY FOR SOMETHING NOT GOOD ,SO PLEASE
> JUST BE TRUTHFUL WITH ME BY SENDING THE CORRECT PICTURE OF THE ROOM AND ALSO
> INCLUDE YOUR CONTACT INFORMATION AND! PHONE NUMBER SO THAT I CAN INSTRUCT MY
> HEAD OFFICE ACCOUNTING MANAGER TO SEND YOU A CERTISFIED CHEQUE AND IF THAT'S
> OKAY BY YOU THEN FORWARD ME THE NESSESARY INFORMATION SUCH AS NAME AND
> ADDRESS TO SEND THE CHECK TO AND THE NAME TO ISSUE ON IT AND ALSO INCLUDE
> THE TOTAL COST FOR THE DATE STATED.
> I WILL LIKE YOU TO MAKE THINGS FAST TO AVOID DELAY FROM US BEFORE ANOTHER
> PERSON PAY FOR IT.
> REGARDS
> MRS SANDRA BROWN

So I sent a reply:
DEAREST MRS SANDRA BROWN

I AM DELIGHTFUL TO HAVE YOUR ENQUIRING. GOD BLESS YOU MOST SINCERELY
INDEED. I WOULD BE DELIGHTFULLY TO SEND YOU SOME PHOTOGRAPHS OF MY
ACCOMMODATIONS BUT AS I DONT NOT HAVE THEM ON THE COMPUTER I WILL SEND
THEM BY AIRMAIL TO YOU IN LAGOS. PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR ADDRESS SOONEST.

I'm still waiting for the reply.

[Mountain Goat]

MG