Cool tools

[livinginitaly]

In my experience, Firefox only interprets CSS correctly some of the time.

CSS is like any other 'code' ...... there's good and there's bad.

Some of my first attempts at CSS sites looked terrible in moz (they didn't look so pretty in IE either!) .... but once you learn the 'proper' way, moz browsers actually interpret CSS better than IE.

Many of the 'workarounds' in CSS are there to get IE to display properly.

I know that it's been covered in other threads ...... but CSS isn't just about meeting Accessibility Standards. There's no doubt in my mind, someday (soon) all sites will use CSS for layout as well as 'styling'.

Long, painful road though

[vrooje]

Yes, I know you're right, of course -- you use CSS in your pages and they all look great in Firefox, so naturally it can be done well! I admit to laziness and lack of time/willingness to learn to do it *right* when tables already work for me. I'll have to do it sometime, though!

[livinginitaly]

Well, i'm wading through 'text books' forcing myself to improve my PHP knowledge ........ i've learned the 'basics' from hacking around with other peoples code, but there's no 'easy' way to getting the best results is there?

[rich_sipe]

Though, I am not sure I agree with its recommendation that I stop using tables. Tables are something I can be pretty sure will work with every browser. CSS, while it ought to also be that way, isn't. In my experience, Firefox only interprets CSS correctly some of the time.

How funny I thought the exact same thing and even just posted on another topic the same suggestion. I have also heard that Firefox is the correct CSS strictly by the standards but no way I am going to check into all that standards mumbo jumbo. I think CSS is perfect for formatting but for positioning it still has a way to go.

[paolo]

one thing I was going to suggest to Paolo is ...... what are the thoughts on setting up a 'lay my hat' webring?

Hi Tony,

This has been mentioned before but not acted on. What would you say are the pros and cons of a webring? And indeed, how does it work?

[livinginitaly]

What would you say are the pros and cons of a webring? And indeed, how does it work?

Basically, it's a 'free-to-set-up' link directory that allows related sites to add their details easily with the aim of gaining increased 'browser' traffic.

It's more or less automated once it's set up, the 'hub master' (you) would recieve an email when anyone 'signs up', you have the option of accepting or denying membership.

Here's the link for more information ..... http://www.webring.org

Pro's
- it will generate more 'real person' traffic for all members
- increased awareness of 'lay my hat'
- easy to set up

Con's
- do we see other sites as 'competition'?
- doesn't help with search engines
- 'hi-end' site designers may consider it 'beneath' them

Whilst anyone who has been 'on the net' for any great length of time will link 'webrings' to 'geeky' fansites and 'dungeons & dragons' .... In my experience, they really do bring extra 'human traffic' to a site.

They fell out of favour when SEO came to the fore, but I believe that things are changing and a return to real sites, for real people is on the cards ...... link farms and sites with excessive SEO are starting to get penalised.

[Fraise]

Hi, I was invited to join one, so I did last week but I'm not sure of the value? Guess it's just "wait and see"

www.thepetitmanoir.com

[vrooje]

I definitely associate webrings with D&D, faeries, and other amateur pursuits. I don't think a serious commercial site would ever join a webring. I'm also not sure that the banner that signifies a webring adds anything to the site in terms of giving it a more personal feel.

I have to admit, it's unlikely that I'd be willing to add a webring graphic/link to any prominent place on my rental site because it could clash with the look and feel of it. Of course, I'm biased against webrings because the graphics are usually horrendously amateur animated gifs.

Also, what benefit would having a webring bring us, the renters, since it doesn't really help much with SEO?

What benefit would it bring the clients? We have rental properties all over the world, which is great for us because we're not directly competing with each other. But that lack of competition means it's unlikely to help the client, because the client has usually decided which country and sometimes which region of the country they want to go to before they search for accomodation.

I think there's something to be said for all of us linking back to Lay My Hat. We all get links to our sites from Lay My Hat, and (speaking for myself at least) I'd love to give something back to Paolo for putting together and maintaining this place -- even if it is just a link. I'm just not sure a webring is the way to do it. Maybe it could be something more like an association we can join that has a quality charter we can advertise.

Cheers!

[rich_sipe]

I have to kind of agree against the webring. I have a similar type of thing on my blog from blogger but it is a different less business related pursuit. I try and get people to click on the google links just to give me some beer money but really I am just sharing helpful ideas AND getting links back to my vacation rental I do sell some log furniture but once I have the time to start the business correctly I will pull it onto its own site.

I would be interested in having a list of recommended vacation rentals around the world which would serve to create recipical links and is a helpful thing for my return guests who might want to know if I have any suggestions on where to stay for their trip to _____. These rentals would be from trusted people such as the contacts I have made on this forum. Because if you recomend someone it eventually comes back to you.

[livinginitaly]

Vrooje,

Not suprised to hear your objections ... Funny, but i was thinking of you when I was writing certain parts of my post

I fully understand and, for the most part, agree with what you say. However, I was thinking of the 'average' site owner here together with the browsing habits of the 'average' surfer.

The 'banner' for a webring can be as professional or un-professional as you like and the links can even be contained in a single line of text if required. Therefore any 'clashes' of design, could be minimal if carefully done.

But anyway, it was probably just me thinking 'out loud' .... I have to admit to constantly looking at different ways of doing things (not all of them good!).

One thing though ...... who else here hasn't already put a link to Lay My Hat? I know it isn't 'compulsary' but considering all the talk of SEO, together with the value gained from the forum, I'd have thought that would be done as a matter of course.

[paolo]

As is usually the case I am swayed by Brooke's argument on this. The one thing that would interest me is greater awareness of Lay My Hat - but with a webring that awareness would be among holiday-makers rather than rental owners.

A link back to Lay My Hat would be nice but it is not compulsory - I know a link like this can jar with a site's design if there is no links page.

[Sue Dyer]

D'oh!! sorry, I'd never thought to add LMH to my links, I will put this right asap.

(Don't expect too much traffic. My links page has 129 hits against 6337 homepage)

Mind, I'll have to then be careful about discussing "guests from hell" and calling the people who left dog poo in the cupboard etc but if they do happen on it, it may shame them.

[paolo]

Thanks Sue, although it's more about the link in the eyes of Google than the traffic it might bring - any traffic would be from renters rather than owners.

[jimadept]

SilkTide awarded my Free Ads site 9.7 for design.... I threw that site together in MS WORD ffs!!! And it says my blog, which is only read by grandparents and aunts, is ranked 80th in the world.

I would now take its opinions with an extremely large pinch of salt.

Jim

[livinginitaly]

SilkTide awarded my Free Ads site 9.7 for design

But what a well designed page it is .... don't put yourself down

And it says my blog, which is only read by grandparents and aunts, is ranked 80th in the world

I'd say the reference is to the fact that 'Blogspot' is the 80th most visited.

Like all 'tools' the results gained from this need some 'interpretation' in order to prove valuable and testing just one page in isolation doesn't provide the tool or you with enough 'data'. I'd stand by the results, the information is valid, and if you are a 'code freak' it does point out specific areas for improvement.

If on the other hand, your happy with flash, music or even tables etc .... then it really is of no use at all.

I really, (really!) don't want to get dragged into the old css/standards debate again ..... but things do progress forward. There was a time when a 'website' was just typed text on a page, then 'tables', now css .... things do change and it's 'sometimes' for the better.