Booked - cancelled - rebooked - same dates...once I had put

[lorca]

I´m with Pesi - even if not pre-planned they are taking advantage. Offer it to them at the original price, explaining if you want that they have cost you money and we´re lucky not to loose their deposit. Or just turn them down.

[Nessie]

Back to the other issue. I don't really think these people are being devious. A bit sly, rather clever and taking advantage yes, but to be devious they would have to have expected the return of their deposit which in 9 out of 10 cases would not have been done. So Sam is slightly to blame for this turn of events. Kids fall in and out of love and in and out of relationshsips, splits happen and resplits also happen. They would have given a better impression if they had rebooked in the original name, but only that, a better impression.

Having said all that I wouldn't take them as I believe in gut feelings too and if you are not happy with a booking don't take it.

I do agree, normally the deposit is not refunded,but if you dont feel happy then dont take the booking.

Years ago i bought a christmas present in M&S only to find the item was reduced 50% just before christmas.I bought the item and returned the original one for a full refund maybe i was devious but am sure others have done the same

[Sam V]

Bit the bullet and sent 'Mr M' the following:

Thank you for the return of your booking forms and payment, which I have now received.

As you are aware a booking for the same dates with your group was originally made and subsequently cancelled shortly before the balance payment was due by your friend 'Mr S'. The result of that was that the dates became available at a discounted rate because of the relatively small amount of time left before the start of the holiday.

It appears the only reason for the present late availability is that your group ensured that the dates were not available to anyone else to book and then cancelled when it was too late to do anything other than re-advertise at a lower rate. If your group is genuine and wanted to rebook, at the very least it appears disingenuous to just apply as if you are new customers and expect to get the rate which has only been discounted because your group cancelled. 'Mr S' could have contacted me to possibly re-instate the booking. Anything else is a transparent try-on which looks to have been deliberately engineered. So in this instance I have decided to decline your booking and, as I have his bank details, I will be refunding your payment to 'Mr Ss' account. (I thought this would be easier as I already have his details)

I got this response:

Firstly I would advise that you do not make the refund back to 'Mr S' as you have no idea what is happening between me and him and if I do not get the money back it will be you that I come to with legal action not anyone else.. I have just spoken to the legal team at work and they advise me that basically you wouldn’t have a leg to stand on as the money came from me to you and was sent back to someone else by you..



Secondly I actually asked 'Mr S' to send you an email explaining the current situation and it appears he hasn’t done this.. The original booking was made by 'Mr S' and then our relationship broke down* and he cancelled the holiday.. I then took it upon myself to find us another Villa as we already had the flights etc, at this point I came across your Villa and thought it would be a good idea to book the same one as we have already done the research etc and it also meant that you didn’t lose out on a booking for that week.. Then as I was booking the Villa me and 'Mr S' started to talk again and I thought I would add him to the booking form just in case ended up coming along, as you know you charge to add people to the booking after it has all gone through!


I’m not sure why I need to explain myself to you like this and divulge my personal life as at the end of the day all you need to look at this as is a new booking.. and your claims that this is a ‘transparent try-on which looks to have been deliberately engineered’ are actually rather ridiculous.. As if anyone would go to such lengths to secure a £50 discount on a week’s holiday for 5 people.. I mean how the hell was I supposed to know that you were going to re-advertise at a lower price anyway, do you think we would have risked losing out on the Villa in the hope of saving a few pounds..?!


Anyway I hope that I have made myself clear with the information and advice I have provided above and I will await your reply.. I would hope that you take time to consider your decision to cancel the booking as your claims have no substance whatsoever.. If you still feel like you wish to cancel the booking then please let me know and I will forward you my bank details so you can make the refund back to the person who made the booking..

I would appreciate a call on ### so that this can be resolved..

* was told by Mr S that he was cancelling because he had split from his girlfriend.

[klompje]

I am afraid this is what happens when you give too much information! Put it down to experience, cancel the booking and lick your wounds.

[Mouse]

hi Sam...my view (for what it's worth);

I'm assuming this is the girlfriend of Mr S the original booker?

1st point - I'd agree with. The money has to be returned to the bank account/person it came from.

2nd point - she seems to be getting herself confused. Doesn't add up does it?
Overall if she had flights already booked and was still looking for a holiday then her first actions should have been to continue with your place.

Personally I would email back and say you're returning the money to the person who paid it (point 1) as you are sticking with your decision to cancel the booking. It would seem the mature thing to do was for her to contact you about re-instating the booking and she doesn't give you a satisfactory reason why she didn't do that.
Don't get drawn in, and I'm sure you wouldn't want them at your place now anyway.

Mousie
x

[pepsipuss]

Firstly Sam, I am sorry if it is my post that has got you into hot water! I was just about to post when I saw Mouse's response and I agree with her about the refund and indeed about everything else although I think this is still a bloke?

A question: where did the 50quid come from - I thought we were talking about a difference of 180-odd and an extra person to boot?

Beyond that, I find this bit to be the most telling:

I then took it upon myself to find us another Villa as we already had the flights etc, at this point I came across your Villa and thought it would be a good idea to book the same one as we have already done the research etc and it also meant that you didn’t lose out on a booking for that week..

As Mouse says, why did the cancellation take place IN THE FIRST INSTANCE as everyone else was going to be travelling anyway??? I think they are just trying to confuse you. Doesn't add up....back to walking like a duck etc etc

Whatever happens next, you would be on tenterhooks the entire time they are there because there is a really good chance with the bad faith already demonstrated that there will be all sorts of other problems.

[Sam V]

No need to apologise for the reply Pepsi, mine would have been in the same vein only not so elequantly put!

Your right it really does not add up. Why should his friend send an email to explain the situation when he could have explained himself? Their friendship must be on very rocky ground if he feels he wont get his money from his friend. He could have contacted me to keep the booking when his friend had cancelled. As thier relationships sound so turmultuous I really don't feel confident in them staying at my place during an argument! If he wanted to talk me back into holding thier booking he really hasn't does himself any favours to win me over! ....I could go on and on, but I've had 4 booking enquiries today, 2 for October! ..and the £50 quid, that was an under estimate by him, and in my haste previously I had over estimated! but from the original full price for the week they had in fact saved £116 and added an extra person! ...still not bad?

[kg1]

Hello Sam - my input would be-

Always trust your gut instinct with guests, it's never let me down yet.

Do not refund the booking deposit (we charge £150.00 per week booked) unless you can re-let. In which case the refund will be less any additional expenses you have incurred such as 'late availability' adverts or money lost having to discount the period to get a booking at late notice.

Don't get involved with long winded explanations as to why you are not accepting a booking request - you have a perfect right to choose who you let to. We won't accept under 30's all male or female groups as the property isn't suitable.

Having said all this I did refund a lady whose husband had left her & she couldn't afford to fund the holiday - she could have been fibbing but I got a lovely letter from her thanking me for the refund, which she had not expected, saying it was a lovely surprise - gut instinct correct again I think!

[Normandie]

So in this instance I have decided to decline your booking and, as I have his bank details, I will be refunding your payment to 'Mr Ss' account. (I thought this would be easier as I already have his details)

I have not read the full post as I had to screech to a halt when i read the above.

You received a new payment from one person but have decided to refund it to another person because you (still) have their details? If I have understood that correctly (and I can't really believe I have) I find that action gobsmackingly unprofessional.

Having now read on:

As Mouse says, why did the cancellation take place IN THE FIRST INSTANCE as everyone else was going to be travelling anyway??? I think they are just trying to confuse you. Doesn't add up....back to walking like a duck etc etc

Perhaps because the original booking was cancelled by the booker in a fit of pique - or the simple mistaken belief that as there'd been a partnership split the rest of the group wouldn't want to go. I don't know - and frankly, I wouldn't be caring - because, as I said earlier, we are all running businesses and second-guessing the motives and dynamics of group bookings based on no knowledge of the situation isn't a requirement of the job and it's a waste of my time and energy.

After some bridge-building, I would take the booking. However, I would argue that it should be at the originally agreed rate or, if necessary, negotiate a half-way rate between the two figures. And I certainly wouldn't be refunding money to someone who did not pay it originally just because it was easier for me.

What really went wrong with this booking was that the owner didn't take a non-refundable deposit. And if the customer hadn't been told in the original discussions that cheaper rates might be available nearer the holiday date, none of this surmising and second-guessing would be taking place. What this really hightlights is that in business dealings saying the bare minimum is usually better.

[Taff2]

What really went wrong with this booking was that the owner didn't take a non-refundable deposit. And if the customer hadn't been told in the original discussions that cheaper rates might be available nearer the holiday date, none of this surmising and second-guessing would be taking place. What this really hightlights is that in business dealings saying the bare minimum is usually better.

I'm in agreement with you Normandie in all but the last sentence. If you're confident enough in your property and the market, then you can rebuff any offers at the outset and keep business dealings to a minimum.

(I know a lot of people need hand holding perhaps because it's their first time renting privately or they are serial worriers. Everyone has different requirements (Where can I get a Pot Noodle at 3 in the morning?)

Every enquiry is the start of a negotiation. Actually it starts before then, as soon as the property is advertised.

When the e-mail is received or the phone answered there should be a few "givens".

1) The owner wants to rent the property (subject to restrictions already advertised)
2) The property meets the renters requirements.( Location, price and size.)

Anything after the phone is picked up, in this day and age, is haggling.
A very dangerous area where off the cuff remarks or maybe a remark that was intended as a deal clincher/frightener.
(e.g. you could try closer to the date and see if it's reduced,) can come back and bite you in the bum.

[vrooje]

I agree completely with Normandie regarding returning funds to someone other than the person who sent the original payment, and also regarding what really went wrong with the booking. Part of taking a non-refundable deposit includes the ability to offer a discount in case of a late cancellation without worry that the original client will try to take advantage of the situation they themselves created.

The subjects discussed on this thread appear to be linked to the topics of our latest discrimination thread, where we are contemplating age discrimination, the legal value of one's gut, and the role of concealment in holiday rentals.

kyreniagirl, I do not necessarily agree with this:

you have a perfect right to choose who you let to.

This statement may conflict with the law in your area. You are able to refuse anyone you like, but you may not have the legal right to do so, depending on the law and the particular circumstances.

I also strongly object to your policy of refusing anyone under 30 or single-sex groups (or both) to rent from you, on both legal and ethical grounds. As we are discussing on the other thread, there may be a case for charging extra fees and/or a larger security deposit, but I have never heard a convincing justification for outright refusal of such groups. Plenty of people in their late twenties are mature and responsible. It is not unthinkable that you might have a single-sex group of twenty-something lawyers inquire with you, and decide to file a lawsuit after feeling the injury of being refused. And if they do have the law on their side, you could find that your own policy does more damage to your business than anything the refused group could have done.

If you decide to respond to this, it might be a good idea to jump in on the other thread instead of posting here, so as to keep from hijacking this thread.

[Normandie]

What this really hightlights is that in business dealings saying the bare minimum is usually better.

I'm in agreement with you Normandie in all but the last sentence.

Apologies: I should have defined “business dealings”. What I had in mind here are the price, what’s included, the booking process, payment, terms & conditions, etc. Where the facts are the facts and are not for justification or debate - though yes, they can be varied if both parties come to an agreement that suits. If a discount is available / agreeable say so but don't elaborate on the whys and wherefores of a discount being offered. Discussing business strategies is not desirable... and that's what forecasting possible discount rates several months hence is ...especially when you want them to book now at the non-discounted rate!

The hand-holding side of a booking is more personal, very important and is often where the customer / owner relationship is consolidated. Tailoring it to the customer takes as much time, effort and attention to details as it takes. It’s important too because it’s where the individual owner can differentiate him / herself over other owners or rental companies, indicating his or her commitment to the customer before they arrive.

[kg1]

Hi Vrooje. Didn't mean to hijack anyone's thread. I just gave my personal opinion. I know many under 30's are very responsible ( I own one myself!) but many are not & having let one New Year to just such a group - never again. Many properties don't accept stag & hen groups and a few discreet enquiries can soon reveal the demographics of a group of potential guests.

[vrooje]

No worries, I don't think you hijacked the thread -- if anyone did, it was me! But I wanted to post a response here first in case you weren't monitoring the other thread. From now, though, anything else we say on the topic of same-sex/under-30 restrictions should be over there so that Sam V can have his topic back!

[Jimbo]

Sam V wrote:

Anything else is a transparent try-on which looks to have been deliberately engineered ... etc … etc …

Disgruntled client wrote:

I’m not sure why I need to explain myself to you like this and divulge my personal life … etc ... etc …

If you decide not to take a booking, I'd suggest that you politely decline without giving a reason. Once you veer from the facts and try to interpret peoples’ motives and actions, you’re liable to uncork a whole pandora’s box of unpleasantness.

Jim