Hi Arnold
I'm not sure page rank means as much today. I've read guru's postulating that the page rank of inward links could be used for some sort of scoring system. Interestingly, the google link search always shows much fewer than the others (164 v 1000 - 3000). http://www.linkpopularity.com/ is quite useful to see this. Not all inward links are equal ?
MSN actually has my old site going down (No 16) and the new site going up. When the old site was No 1, I didn't get many hits. Despite the comments, google is still the big player for me.
Yahoo has the new site at No3. It generates a few visitors.
It would be interesting to know more about these direct hits, maybe the new google stats service will help.
Alan : I don't see any furore. Exchange of website ideas and experience is useful to all who have websites. I understood it was the purpose of the "Personal Websites" category ?
Peter
Typical number of hits
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Peter,
You're right! I did rather overstate my case - sorry.
I have the feeling that some people regard their Websites as things in their own right rather than tools with which enquiries can be obtained. For some, hits and visits seem to have gained more importance than the enquiries they are supposed to generate.
By all means have a personal Website but I think the results to be tested are the enqiries generated.
If hundreds of visits result in no enquiries I would question the value of the Website and all the hours expended on its creation.
Alan
You're right! I did rather overstate my case - sorry.
I have the feeling that some people regard their Websites as things in their own right rather than tools with which enquiries can be obtained. For some, hits and visits seem to have gained more importance than the enquiries they are supposed to generate.
By all means have a personal Website but I think the results to be tested are the enqiries generated.
If hundreds of visits result in no enquiries I would question the value of the Website and all the hours expended on its creation.
Alan
Peter: Just skimmed over my earlier comment on your positioning in MSN re google and it sounds a bit "yah boo". I was just wondering at the relative difference in our sites on the two search engines. In an ideal world, I'd have thought that two different websites would appear in the same relative position on all search engines yet our two are in reverse order on the two searches and for no good reason that I can see.
On this basis, I'd have thought that you, understandably, having about 10 times the inbound links as I do should mean that you'd always be ranked above me. Seems to imply that MSN doesn't rate inbound links as being quite so important as google does.
Google always undercounts inward links. It appears to have a selection of sites from which it ignores links. For me, it ignores almost all the links I have from listings sites. OK, that may be partly due to some of those sites serving pages from a database but in that case how come, that if you search for me you'll see my visitfrance listing in google yet google doesn't list that as a link to me? I can't even see that they are only listing the "important" links as one of those listed for me is my own flights & car hire page which is only a few months old and indeed my history page which is one of the least important pages of my site (although funnily enough it's been picking up traffic courtesy of the Da Vinci Code on the telly).
I would have thought that my better placing in MSN would have meant that more of the new hits would come from them but of those that don't come up "no referrer", I get over four times the number from google as from MSN. Although I suppose that could be a consequence of more people using google.
Last year, I had heaps of hits from yahoo, this year virtually none.
I don't think google's new service will help that much with the "no referrers". As I understand it, you basically put a google "counter" on your pages and they use that to do the analysis. I've had the similar (in principle) nedstatbasic counters on my pages for ages and they aren't able to provide any more information than I get direct from the hosting service. The APPEAR to give more information but that's simply because they ignore the "no referrer" hits altogether.
Alan: I think the thing is that we all assume (hopefully correctly) that there is some relationship between the number of site visitors and the number of guests. When I get a big jump in the number of site visitors in the summer, I get a corresponding big jump in the number of bookings over the following week. Did the 10 fold jump in hits in September give me a 10 fold increase in guests? Well, no, but then we're not in a holiday season around here and it's possible that the extra page views are people looking around for next years holiday.
However, when I look at the longer term trend of the increase in page views it follows relatively well the growth in guest numbers. Taking a few points of reference from my longer term stats:
April 2004 to April 2005: 9 x the page views, 3 x the guests
May 2004 to May 2005: 5 x page views, 10 x guests
June 2004 to June 2005: 4.5 x page views, 4 x guests
July 2004 to July 2005: 2 x page views, 2 x guests
August 2004 to August 2005: 2.4 x page views, 2.7 x guests
So historically, we have had a good correlation between page views and guest numbers. The main exceptions in the above were April (couldn't have 9 x guests as we don't have that many rooms) and May (don't know why).
You are quite correct that a lot (most?) people end up looking at the website stats in isolation. However, as you can see from our figures the page views have, for us, been a good indication of guest numbers. What I'm wondering (worrying actually now that I've looked at the above numbers) is whether we'll get the same effect next year ie if we get 10 times the page views in August does that mean not 10 enquiries per day but 100?
Overall the site is very important to us as it increases our annual income by around 50%. Although I think that's an unusually high number though resulting from my previous experience in this line and, for those starting out I wouldn't recommend assuming that a website would be that valuable.
So can you see why I'm wondering about our 10 fold jump in September, Alan? If it is the case that the link between page views and guest numbers holds up once we get into next years holiday season, we are going to have to allow for that and start looking for staff now to deal with it.
Arnold
On this basis, I'd have thought that you, understandably, having about 10 times the inbound links as I do should mean that you'd always be ranked above me. Seems to imply that MSN doesn't rate inbound links as being quite so important as google does.
Google always undercounts inward links. It appears to have a selection of sites from which it ignores links. For me, it ignores almost all the links I have from listings sites. OK, that may be partly due to some of those sites serving pages from a database but in that case how come, that if you search for me you'll see my visitfrance listing in google yet google doesn't list that as a link to me? I can't even see that they are only listing the "important" links as one of those listed for me is my own flights & car hire page which is only a few months old and indeed my history page which is one of the least important pages of my site (although funnily enough it's been picking up traffic courtesy of the Da Vinci Code on the telly).
I would have thought that my better placing in MSN would have meant that more of the new hits would come from them but of those that don't come up "no referrer", I get over four times the number from google as from MSN. Although I suppose that could be a consequence of more people using google.
Last year, I had heaps of hits from yahoo, this year virtually none.
I don't think google's new service will help that much with the "no referrers". As I understand it, you basically put a google "counter" on your pages and they use that to do the analysis. I've had the similar (in principle) nedstatbasic counters on my pages for ages and they aren't able to provide any more information than I get direct from the hosting service. The APPEAR to give more information but that's simply because they ignore the "no referrer" hits altogether.
Alan: I think the thing is that we all assume (hopefully correctly) that there is some relationship between the number of site visitors and the number of guests. When I get a big jump in the number of site visitors in the summer, I get a corresponding big jump in the number of bookings over the following week. Did the 10 fold jump in hits in September give me a 10 fold increase in guests? Well, no, but then we're not in a holiday season around here and it's possible that the extra page views are people looking around for next years holiday.
However, when I look at the longer term trend of the increase in page views it follows relatively well the growth in guest numbers. Taking a few points of reference from my longer term stats:
April 2004 to April 2005: 9 x the page views, 3 x the guests
May 2004 to May 2005: 5 x page views, 10 x guests
June 2004 to June 2005: 4.5 x page views, 4 x guests
July 2004 to July 2005: 2 x page views, 2 x guests
August 2004 to August 2005: 2.4 x page views, 2.7 x guests
So historically, we have had a good correlation between page views and guest numbers. The main exceptions in the above were April (couldn't have 9 x guests as we don't have that many rooms) and May (don't know why).
You are quite correct that a lot (most?) people end up looking at the website stats in isolation. However, as you can see from our figures the page views have, for us, been a good indication of guest numbers. What I'm wondering (worrying actually now that I've looked at the above numbers) is whether we'll get the same effect next year ie if we get 10 times the page views in August does that mean not 10 enquiries per day but 100?
Overall the site is very important to us as it increases our annual income by around 50%. Although I think that's an unusually high number though resulting from my previous experience in this line and, for those starting out I wouldn't recommend assuming that a website would be that valuable.
So can you see why I'm wondering about our 10 fold jump in September, Alan? If it is the case that the link between page views and guest numbers holds up once we get into next years holiday season, we are going to have to allow for that and start looking for staff now to deal with it.
Arnold
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Nothing gets past you Alexia 
Basically it was down to the pattern of bookings: the April bookings were concentrated over a very short period of time (ie Easter) whereas the May ones were more evenly spread throughout the month. I think that this might have had something to do with the lower rise in page views creating a proportionately higher number of guests - ie if someone missed Easter, that was that but if they missed the first May bank holiday they might try for the second one.
This pattern was also reflected by the page views. I can't produce the figures now but in broad terms for Easter we had a jump in hits and within the following day or two, a big jump in bookings which continued 'til we were full (I think in about a week) although the page views didn't drop 'til two or three days before Easter itself.
Arnold
Basically it was down to the pattern of bookings: the April bookings were concentrated over a very short period of time (ie Easter) whereas the May ones were more evenly spread throughout the month. I think that this might have had something to do with the lower rise in page views creating a proportionately higher number of guests - ie if someone missed Easter, that was that but if they missed the first May bank holiday they might try for the second one.
This pattern was also reflected by the page views. I can't produce the figures now but in broad terms for Easter we had a jump in hits and within the following day or two, a big jump in bookings which continued 'til we were full (I think in about a week) although the page views didn't drop 'til two or three days before Easter itself.
Arnold
Alan,
You are right in a way that once you have a personal website, you can become a bit obsessed, like some people are obsessed with their cars or fishing. It's a very satisfying thing to get obsessed with because in theory everything is logically laid out and you have a cause and effect every step of the way. The only grey area is how exactly the search engines rank you.
You can see how people find your site, how they behave once there, and what they do next (leave/bookmark/enquire).
It's like having a shop that you built, but you can change anything and everything about it instantly to try to make it more appealing to punters.
You are right in a way that once you have a personal website, you can become a bit obsessed, like some people are obsessed with their cars or fishing. It's a very satisfying thing to get obsessed with because in theory everything is logically laid out and you have a cause and effect every step of the way. The only grey area is how exactly the search engines rank you.
You can see how people find your site, how they behave once there, and what they do next (leave/bookmark/enquire).
It's like having a shop that you built, but you can change anything and everything about it instantly to try to make it more appealing to punters.
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
