Rate Bands
- barbersdrove
- Posts: 985
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:48 pm
- Location: crowland south lincolnshire
We are not in a holiday hot spot (though we do get holiday makers) so ours will be different and thank goodness they are.
We have one rate all year apart from a few days over Xmas and New Year. I don't think I could cope with loads of differing prices. having the same does not seem to have affected our business at all. Last year our busiest month was November, the year before feb when prices were high compared to the local competition. this maybe one for the argument that higher prices makes people think they are getting higher quality....which of course they are
We were still busy over the main holiday periods and bookings this year are reflecting the same pattern. Took a 3 week Sept/Oct booking yesterday.
14 rates! I would be more grey haired than i am now if that was us.
We have one rate all year apart from a few days over Xmas and New Year. I don't think I could cope with loads of differing prices. having the same does not seem to have affected our business at all. Last year our busiest month was November, the year before feb when prices were high compared to the local competition. this maybe one for the argument that higher prices makes people think they are getting higher quality....which of course they are
We were still busy over the main holiday periods and bookings this year are reflecting the same pattern. Took a 3 week Sept/Oct booking yesterday.
14 rates! I would be more grey haired than i am now if that was us.
A cream cake a day keeps the wrinkles at bay:)
- barbersdrove
- Posts: 985
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:48 pm
- Location: crowland south lincolnshire
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- Posts: 1091
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:12 pm
- Location: Chester, North West England & Sidmouth, East Devon
- Contact:
We started off with Sykes and had to use their system on our own web site while we were still with them. It was too complicated and didn't fit our 'seasons' at all - made it way too cheap in the winter. Now we don't rely on any agencies and we set our rates at 3 levels - low (Beginning of Nov to week before Easter), peak (Easter, Xmas, New Year, last week of May to end of August) and mid (everything else). Occasionally (e.g. Xmas) we have a minimum charge of the 7 night rate regardless of how many nights the booking is for.
Even though it should be simple I still have to check our price list every time someone asks - those numbers just don't seem to stick in my head.
Even though it should be simple I still have to check our price list every time someone asks - those numbers just don't seem to stick in my head.
Jo
Joint owner of Baker's Cottage in Chester & Chandler's Cottage in Sidmouth
Joint owner of Baker's Cottage in Chester & Chandler's Cottage in Sidmouth
rate bands
We use quite a few, we inherited them from the agent we first set up with. In this area the agents tend to keep to a similar set of date ranges so we do the same.
Have a look at ours, they do include half-terms and other school holidays.
Have a look at ours, they do include half-terms and other school holidays.
"Write something, even if it's just a suicide note"
"There is no human problem which could not be solved if people would simply do as I advise"
"As for my amnesia, I've had it as long as I can remember"
Real name: Steve
Gender: Male
"There is no human problem which could not be solved if people would simply do as I advise"
"As for my amnesia, I've had it as long as I can remember"
Real name: Steve
Gender: Male
- Giddy Goat
- Posts: 9054
- Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:38 am
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Your wish is my command GG! (Somewhat delayed - you can blame Andy Murray for being too defensive in his match against David Ferrer and taking much longer to win it than he needed.)Giddy Goat wrote:Yes, please do GB. I currently have 13 rate bands and have often wondered if this wasn't a bit excessive. One listing site I advertise on clearly thinks so as it only allows space for ten!
I found a rather more realistic (maybe) property banding with 10 rates on the same agency site.
The formatting throughout is beyond my control - sorry!
Band
1 3 Jan 2013 - 7 Feb 2013
2 8 Feb 2013 - 21 Feb 2013
2 22 Feb 2013 - 27 Mar 2013
5 28 Mar 2013 - 11 Apr 2013
3 12 Apr 2013 - 3 May 2013
6 4 May 2013 - 26 Jul 2013
7 27 Jul 2013 - 22 Aug 2013
6 23 Aug 2013 - 12 Sep 2013
4 13 Sep 2013 - 10 Oct 2013
6 11 Oct 2013 - 17 Oct 2013
8 18 Oct 2013 - 31 Oct 2013
3 1 Nov 2013 - 19 Dec 2013
9 20 Dec 2013 - 26 Dec 2013
10 27 Dec 2013 - 2 Jan 2014
However, the rate increments are still questionable; this shows the percentage increase from the previous rate band:
1
2 4%
3 18%
4 17%
5 3%
6 4%
7 13%
8 6%
9 6%
10 2%
My feeling is that it probably isn't worth having a band to band increment of less than 10%, which would simplify the whole thing (next instalment?).
So - anyone's thoughts please on how the dates have been banded, bearing in mind it's for the UK open all year, and a sensible minimum increase between bands.
What a fascinating topic.
And its very interesting to see the spectrum of solutions, ranging from "We have one rate all year apart from a few days over Xmas and New Year." (barberdrove) through greenbarns 10 bands all the way up aasta with 16 bands and 4 variations within each band for short breaks.
If I am to add anything its to suggest that we're trying to answer the wrong question viz "how many bands and what periods?".
The question should be "how to sell more weeks" and "how to maximise profits" using pricing as one of the tools?
Q. Does having 6, 12 or 14 bands help sell more weeks?
I'd maintain that fewer bands helps customers understand.
Q. Does having small increments help maximise profitability?
Almost impossible to answer, given the small number of bookings we get per annum (and believe me, less than a few hundred is statistically "small"). Charles can answer this much better than us private owners. He certainly has the sample size and homogeneity of properties with which to make these calculations - but for his market only.
So, I put it to you that everybody's life (owners, guests, agents etc.) would be much easier with the absolute minimum number of bands that the market will bear.
Here is how I approach the market:
Remember its going to be different for each location and property type. See barbersdrove comments.
Our property is in a family oriented summer resort and has a swimming pool. Therefore the "standard rate" is school summer holidays. Rate band 1
Outside school holidays, I aim to attract families with pre-school kids and/or adult groups who explicitly wish to avoid school holiday times with noisy kids and expensive flights, but still want the warmth of the Algarve. For competitive reasons and guest expectations, this has to be cheaper than "standard" rate, so this is "shoulder rate". Rate band 2
Northern European winters can be harsh, and The Algarve is usually much milder, but you cannot swim in the pool, many of the attractions and restaurants are closed, but its still a holiday destination for adult groups taking perhaps a second (or third) holiday or perhaps just escaping the brutal winters. This is the "winter rate". Rate band 3
The above makes business sense to me, its very easy to market it that way, and having segmented the market as above, it matters not one jot that there is a 50% difference from band to band. They are just different things.
Now, I acknowledge that those who rent UK properties all year round may not be able to segment the market as easily (even I have simplified my own position for the sake of discussion), but surely its food for thought ?
And its very interesting to see the spectrum of solutions, ranging from "We have one rate all year apart from a few days over Xmas and New Year." (barberdrove) through greenbarns 10 bands all the way up aasta with 16 bands and 4 variations within each band for short breaks.
If I am to add anything its to suggest that we're trying to answer the wrong question viz "how many bands and what periods?".
The question should be "how to sell more weeks" and "how to maximise profits" using pricing as one of the tools?
Q. Does having 6, 12 or 14 bands help sell more weeks?
I'd maintain that fewer bands helps customers understand.
Q. Does having small increments help maximise profitability?
Almost impossible to answer, given the small number of bookings we get per annum (and believe me, less than a few hundred is statistically "small"). Charles can answer this much better than us private owners. He certainly has the sample size and homogeneity of properties with which to make these calculations - but for his market only.
So, I put it to you that everybody's life (owners, guests, agents etc.) would be much easier with the absolute minimum number of bands that the market will bear.
Here is how I approach the market:
Remember its going to be different for each location and property type. See barbersdrove comments.
Our property is in a family oriented summer resort and has a swimming pool. Therefore the "standard rate" is school summer holidays. Rate band 1
Outside school holidays, I aim to attract families with pre-school kids and/or adult groups who explicitly wish to avoid school holiday times with noisy kids and expensive flights, but still want the warmth of the Algarve. For competitive reasons and guest expectations, this has to be cheaper than "standard" rate, so this is "shoulder rate". Rate band 2
Northern European winters can be harsh, and The Algarve is usually much milder, but you cannot swim in the pool, many of the attractions and restaurants are closed, but its still a holiday destination for adult groups taking perhaps a second (or third) holiday or perhaps just escaping the brutal winters. This is the "winter rate". Rate band 3
The above makes business sense to me, its very easy to market it that way, and having segmented the market as above, it matters not one jot that there is a 50% difference from band to band. They are just different things.
Now, I acknowledge that those who rent UK properties all year round may not be able to segment the market as easily (even I have simplified my own position for the sake of discussion), but surely its food for thought ?
** Richard
PIMS: Holiday Rental Management system
They say we learn from our mistakes. That makes me a genius !
PIMS: Holiday Rental Management system
They say we learn from our mistakes. That makes me a genius !
That is definitely the underlying question; what I'm trying to investigate in this thread are the optimum solutions to that question - and as you've spotted, it's pretty diverse. Concentrating on my local area (not even paying regard to the UK as a whole), a very small sample size reveals a mass of different approaches. I thought my current 6 bands was high, but it's half the number used by others to arrive at a solution to what is - given my constraints on locality - almost exactly the same question.e-richard wrote:What a fascinating topic.
If I am to add anything its to suggest that we're trying to answer the wrong question viz "how many bands and what periods?".
The question should be "how to sell more weeks" and "how to maximise profits" using pricing as one of the tools?
I'm not convinced that guests will look at the number of bands; their sole focus is "how much is that week, and how much is the place down the road charging?" Their interest may extend to "how much is the following or previous week, and why is there a price difference of £5 (which I've seen, and not on a low budget property!) or £200?"Q. Does having 6, 12 or 14 bands help sell more weeks?
I'd maintain that fewer bands helps customers understand.
Theoretically, it must do; if you could arrive at the ideal rate to the penny for every week of the year (and that's either no bands, or 52 bands depending on your viewpoint), you'll maximise profits. But it would be confusing to guests, and confusion breeds irritation - "why is this week £3 more than the following week, £2.75 less than the previous week? What's all that about? The owners must be penny pinching. (discuss!) This is bonkers, I'll give up on this property."Q. Does having small increments help maximise profitability?
The flip side is the question of what effect does a massive price difference from one week to the next have in the mind of the guest? Example - August is peak (let's just pick a random base of £900), October is mid at £600. Where does September fit? Early September is a very popular time for people without kids; school holidays are over so places are less congested, but the weather is often some of the best. It's outside of school holidays, so not peak rate which would put people off. But it's very popular, so not mid which would be too cheap. Likewise the few weeks immediately before peak, say late June and most of July (except that Scottish schools break earlier......); is a sudden hike of 50% from one week to the next good for business? I'd argue that we need to treat these "slope" weeks separately.
I think that's pretty much where I'm trying to get, although I'd change it a bit: the absolute minimum number of bands that is best for your business, and that the market will bear.So, I put it to you that everybody's life (owners, guests, agents etc.) would be much easier with the absolute minimum number of bands that the market will bear.
Apologies for taking liberties, but I'll summarise the next bit, although for discussion purposes and to avoid any inherent distortion I might introduce with this summary, the section of Richard's post needs reading in entirety, and note that he says
I have simplified my own position for the sake of discussion
(My summary, and I'll stick with the convention of numbering bands from low to high.)Here is how I approach the market:
Winter - band 1 - low
School summer holidays - band 3 - peak
Other times - band 2 - mid
This is where my previous point about the "slope" weeks comes in, and where I can only comment on the market I'm trying to understand - ie the UK, and a particular area at that.
There's also the anomalies thrown in by, say, October half term, May bank holiday, Easter (which moves a lot) - even February half term. Maybe the only straightforward period is Christmas and New Year, which don't have "slope" weeks! Although they do raise other questions.
Definitely - and food enough for a gourmand! Having done breakfast, I need to go and get on with a few things, but I hope there's more on this topic to come later.but surely its food for thought ?
I'm with you on this one GB. I need to maximise profits and bookings and my experience over the last couple of years is now telling me that fine tuning the rates is the key.
There is a price which people are prepared to pay for a given period, and if that is very different to my competitors, they will go elsewhere. I don't need to be the cheapest, but I do need to be competitive.
I don't think huge leaps are particularly beneficial, so it's a question of fine tuning certain weeks. As long as the guest can clearly see the price for a given date, then I don't think it matters too much how many bands there are.
I was all for keep it simple. Indeed that's where I started. My market is telling me that I need to create another band or two, particularly for June, possibly early July, and September. That way I will perhaps increase profits on those dates, by virtue May and October look slightly cheaper by comparison, and that may therefore increase bookings in those months?
I think it also depends on where your bookings come from in the main. Currently 47% come via my website, so as long as prices are clear there it's a good start. It then goes back to whether your listings make it easy or not to describe your pricing accurately enough.
That's my current thinking anyway.
There is a price which people are prepared to pay for a given period, and if that is very different to my competitors, they will go elsewhere. I don't need to be the cheapest, but I do need to be competitive.
I don't think huge leaps are particularly beneficial, so it's a question of fine tuning certain weeks. As long as the guest can clearly see the price for a given date, then I don't think it matters too much how many bands there are.
I was all for keep it simple. Indeed that's where I started. My market is telling me that I need to create another band or two, particularly for June, possibly early July, and September. That way I will perhaps increase profits on those dates, by virtue May and October look slightly cheaper by comparison, and that may therefore increase bookings in those months?
I think it also depends on where your bookings come from in the main. Currently 47% come via my website, so as long as prices are clear there it's a good start. It then goes back to whether your listings make it easy or not to describe your pricing accurately enough.
That's my current thinking anyway.
For the next course I've played around a bit with rationalising the bands I previously posted, chopping out some where the increment is a nonsense (to put it in perspective, the property I was using as a baseline had a rate of £1400, increasing to a different rate of £1440)
Result is 8 bands divided as follows:
1 3-Jan-13 7-Feb-13
2 8-Feb-13 27-Mar-13
4 28-Mar-13 11-Apr-13
3 12-Apr-13 3-May-13
5 4-May-13 26-Jul-13
6 27-Jul-13 22-Aug-13
5 23-Aug-13 12-Sep-13
4 13-Sep-13 10-Oct-13
5 11-Oct-13 17-Oct-13
7 18-Oct-13 31-Oct-13
3 1-Nov-13 19-Dec-13
8 20-Dec-13 2-Jan-14
This still throws up what strike me as anomalies for the UK, but I'd be interested in the views of others. Ignoring Christmas and New Year, which may or may not sell at a higher rate than August, what do people think to the October half term being at a higher rate? I don't get it, unless there's something happening next October that I haven't heard about (sunshine?) Nor do I see why the last week in August drops a band. I could easily see reducing the above to 6 bands.
Comments welcome.
The more I play with this the more I recognise the value of KC's approach - ie tweaking weeks based on experience (in summary). So what I'm really looking for here is the baseline from which to make those tweaks, and limiting that start point to a manageable number of bands. I've got a sneaking feeling I may end up exactly where I started, but I'll have learnt something going round the loop.
Result is 8 bands divided as follows:
1 3-Jan-13 7-Feb-13
2 8-Feb-13 27-Mar-13
4 28-Mar-13 11-Apr-13
3 12-Apr-13 3-May-13
5 4-May-13 26-Jul-13
6 27-Jul-13 22-Aug-13
5 23-Aug-13 12-Sep-13
4 13-Sep-13 10-Oct-13
5 11-Oct-13 17-Oct-13
7 18-Oct-13 31-Oct-13
3 1-Nov-13 19-Dec-13
8 20-Dec-13 2-Jan-14
This still throws up what strike me as anomalies for the UK, but I'd be interested in the views of others. Ignoring Christmas and New Year, which may or may not sell at a higher rate than August, what do people think to the October half term being at a higher rate? I don't get it, unless there's something happening next October that I haven't heard about (sunshine?) Nor do I see why the last week in August drops a band. I could easily see reducing the above to 6 bands.
Comments welcome.
The more I play with this the more I recognise the value of KC's approach - ie tweaking weeks based on experience (in summary). So what I'm really looking for here is the baseline from which to make those tweaks, and limiting that start point to a manageable number of bands. I've got a sneaking feeling I may end up exactly where I started, but I'll have learnt something going round the loop.
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Coming to this a bit late I don't consciously do bands although I do have weeks with the same prices if you see what I mean. I favour KC's approach of tweaking based on past experience and competitors pricing.
This is overlay of GB's rate bands with mine. (GB's line in red)
(I did this by indexing GB's rates in bands 1-8 to my lowest rate. The straight line in Feb going up is because we have no availability between Jan 15 and Mar 1 so t isn't "real").
Fascinating how the overlay for 2013 is a very similar shape between the bands GB lists and what I end up with my "no bands"
Maybe I am not brave enough with my peaks?:-)
This is overlay of GB's rate bands with mine. (GB's line in red)
(I did this by indexing GB's rates in bands 1-8 to my lowest rate. The straight line in Feb going up is because we have no availability between Jan 15 and Mar 1 so t isn't "real").
Fascinating how the overlay for 2013 is a very similar shape between the bands GB lists and what I end up with my "no bands"
Maybe I am not brave enough with my peaks?:-)