How Long Do You Wait Before Re-Listing After Missed Balance?

[kg1]

Green Barn - good advice thank you. It is Sunday there today so will wait till Monday before phoning out of respect and to keep things sweet. Sorry about the heated debate I started!!

Sorry. I wouldn't wait to call them and also I would relist it just in case. You can always take it down again if the payment is made but time is very short now to get a replacement booking.

[greenbarn]

Green Barn - good advice thank you. It is Sunday there today so will wait till Monday before phoning out of respect and to keep things sweet. Sorry about the heated debate I started!!

Sorry. I wouldn't wait to call them and also I would relist it just in case. You can always take it down again if the payment is made but time is very short now to get a replacement booking.

That was my thinking as well, although it may not have come over properly. There's nothing to gain, and everything to lose, by delaying.

[NonnaGiulietta]

time is very short now to get a replacement booking

If this is true for you, Mozzie, I would suggest that you use the non-refundable deposit of your current (defaulter) guests to tailor a discounted offer for the last-minuters who possibly will replace them.

[Mozzie]

This is actually my busy period so should be able to rent it again. Reason I don't want to call on Sunday is that this is a church group and I am dealing with the minister so he will be at work today.

[Jimbo]

I am amazed seeing how this pattern of behavior is widespread on this forum, practically the majority. I don't think there's someone in Italy to adopt the same policy, at least I've never heard of it. In any case I doubt that a few guests would agree to pay well in advance for a service that is still far to be returned. To tell the truth, I'm not even sure it would be legal

But like I said, lucky you...

Unless you have a unique product or service and can make your own rules, most of us adopt the 'norms' associated with our businesses. The norm in my pro photo world is to carry out a job at an agreed location, absorbing all the expenses, and charge retrospectively - with payment required within 30 days. But I am able to do this is because I'm working with a small number of well-established clients of impeccable reputations, with whom I've built long-term relationships.

When I entered the holiday rental industry, research told me that '8 weeks before arrival for full payment' was the norm, and we adopted this approach. Obviously, this makes sense because private owners are dealing with a large number of clients of unknown quality and, if we'd been unable to protect our business in this way from guests who might renege at short notice leaving us with an unsaleable 'baby', we wouldn't have joined the industry. The propect of having to chase recalcitrant guests through the courts for unpaid fees holds no appeal. In eight seasons with three gites, we have yet to have any guest complain about this arrangement (although I accept that potential guests may have been put off).

So, not 'lucky' to be able to do this. Rather a judgement call when we entered the rental industry.

[Big Sis..]

Well, last year I upped mine from 8 to 9 weeks before, and this year its 10 weeks .........so Im a really bad person.
We have a holiday booked for January and have had to pay in full 3 months before, so maybe Im not sooo awful

If people are a bit slow in paying Im always helpful and patient,as long as they keep me posted about the delay.

Hope you get it sorted Mozzie, keep us postedxx
Rosxx

[paolo]

There are, unsurprisingly, cultural differences between countries. In the anglo-saxon world it is normal to pay for a rental ahead of arrival. In Italy and until recently in France it has been the norm to pay the balance on arrival.

It should be possible to discuss differences without being offended by them.

[NonnaGiulietta]

Thank you so much, Jimbo, for your comprehensive answer, but there are still a few details taken for granted -but not so obvious- I'd like to discuss.

this makes sense because private owners are dealing with a large number of clients of unknown quality

This is true, but the guest too have to deal potentially with offers that could turn out to be bogus. It happens more often than you may believe (or it is feared, which is the same) that one arrives at the holiday place and cannot find the owner, often not even the house. From this point of view your risk is counterbalanced by that of the guest (¹), don't you think so?

if we'd been unable to protect our business in this way from guests who might renege at short notice leaving us with an unsaleable 'baby', we wouldn't have joined the industry

This makes sense, but there isn't already the non-refundable deposit for this? After all, if the deposit is high enough to act as a deterrent, who has more to lose is just him/her, the guest. I can't figure someone making fake reservations for fun, if he/her actually loses money.

although I accept that potential guests may have been put off

That's the point

So, not 'lucky' to be able to do this

Again, maybe I've used the wrong term, because of language differences. I didn't mean "lucky" in the sense of "fortunate person", but as the translation of the Italian "beato te!" which express a mix of admiration and envy (with no malevolence). The overall sense was meant to be "Ah, if only I could..." (do like you).

It should be possible to discuss differences without being offended by them

Thanks for interposing words of wisdom, as you often do.

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¹) Perhaps this may be of little interest here, but in Italy contracts with obvious imbalance between the parties (that is, where the rights of a party are overwhelming compared to the other) may be declared invalid.

[Nemo]

I feel the disparity is the other way. We are handing the keys of a property worth tens or sometimes hundreds of thousands of pounds/euros to a complete stranger in return for a few hundred or thousand, in the hope that the guests will treat our properties with the respect they deserve.

I know who is taking the greater risk and from which side the contract should therefore be invalid and it's not the guest!

[salmoncottage]

As Alex Polizzi so correctly remarked "that's the business we're in".
Only she could deliver that line with such truth....

[NonnaGiulietta]

We are handing the keys of a property worth tens or sometimes hundreds of thousands of pounds/euros to a complete stranger in return for a few hundred or thousand, in the hope that the guests will treat our properties with the respect they deserve

If this were the risk to avoid, then an exorbitant security deposit would be the bogey. An ahead payment in full, which is what we are talking about, wouldn't shift anything in the above statement.

[jlaceysmith]

We rented a villa in Tuscany 2 years ago - the whole €6000 cost was paid 8 weeks in advance in accordance with the Italian owner's T and Cs....I didn't have any problem with paying in advance.

Last June we bought our gite complex in France and inherited the summer bookings including a £200 deposit for 2 weeks in our biggest gite. They were a no show, despite telephone calls, e-mails and texts. I could have sold that week 10 times over, but by the time I was certain they weren't coming it was too late to do anything and I was £1200 down on my expected income.

The previous owner had a "full payment 2 weeks before" policy. I've changed to 8 weeks and had no complaints from any guests.

The no shows were from Italy

[Nemo]

If this were the risk to avoid, then an exorbitant security deposit would be the bogey. An ahead payment in full, which is what we are talking about, wouldn't shift anything in the above statement.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to get from this exchange of views? Is it just to understand why we operate the way we do, or are you trying to change us?

The reason to get full payment is in part because we have a finite product. Once it's sold, it's gone. So with 8 plus weeks in hand, if a guest cancels we have a reasonable chance of re-letting. If less than 8 weeks, we have the income we are entitled to for that finite period we have previously sold. If the guests then renege on the contract entered, it is at their risk rather than ours. We can and will attempt to re sell, but it may well be at a lesser price due to becoming a last minute booking.

This is not an unreasonable exchange of risk. The guest can reserve their holiday months ahead, removing those dates from all other potential bookings. We only have security from 8 weeks prior to the booking.

[Mozzie]

Monday morning and I sent my email Balance Overdue and no response. So have just phoned and been assured he will put money into account today - been very busy was the excuse. So here's hoping. Will let you know what happens. Due to the discussions here I have added a few changes to my T & C's to make very clear my policies - thanks again everyone for your advice.

[NonnaGiulietta]

Is it just to understand why we operate the way we do, or are you trying to change us?

Obviously the first. Why the devil would I ever try to change you, what advantage would I get?

In actual fact, I'm very satisfied with your explanation. I had already figured out the crux of the matter, but your exposition is clear and schematic as best I couldn't ever want. Needless to say, this only works as long as certain conditions are met:

1. this policy is standardized and widespread, it represents the norm de facto;
2. the property is not exposed to direct competition in the same area (or the competitors adopt the same policy, which is the same);
3. the property has a high conversion rate between inquiries and bookings, such as to render marginal the risk already highlighted by Jimbo of being ignored;
4. other that at the moment I don't see

At least on this, I hope, we can agree.

BTW, I'm happy to hear that Mozzie is on the way to smooth things over (finger crossed)