Bunk beds and sofa beds?

[maryjane]

We are just finishing renovating our barn in South Aveyron and debating on the type of sleeping accommodation to provide. We have two double bedrooms, one ensuite, and another where there is only room for either a single or a bunk bed. Also thinking of putting a sofa bed in the lounge. Any opinions on whether or not bunk beds and sofa beds are popular with guests
Maryjane

[la vache!]

It depends on your market - kids love bunk beds, I have them in the smaller bedrooms of the gites, but if you are going for an adult market, they are not so interesting. However, it would mean that your property sleeps 6 instead of 5, so you can charge more!
As for sofa beds, I have a sofa bed in every house in addition to the normal sofas, but I don't include those in the advertising of the number of people the accommodation sleeps. We sometimes have people staying who have friends who want to visit for a night, so they can be useful. Also for the French market, who like squeezing as many people into a house as possible. I charge a nightly supplement in this instance.

[Nightowl]

Hmmm, good question, it's one I have been wondering about as well. It's interesting what Susan says about French people wanting to squeeze as many people in as possible...

We have a house which sleeps 6 in the bedrooms, plus 2 single sofa beds in the lounge, which means that in theory 8 can sleep there. However, we shared our place once with friends of ours, so there were 4 adults and 4 kids sharing. We shared part of the holiday dates with them which we did enjoy very much. they had 4 days on their own, we had 4 days together and we had the last 4 on our own. during the 4 days we were all sharing, my husband and I ended up on the sofa beds and found that whilst the sleeping was OK the problem was where to put clothes etc and having duvets etc hanging around the lounge during the daytime (or else having to lug the bedlinen into one of the bedrooms every day to get it out of the way).

We felt we would have been encroaching on their space to share their wardrobes in the double room and ended up putting our clothes in the kids' wardrobes. We then had to raid the bedrooms to get our clothes whilst our teenage kids were still asleep (even later than us). Our differing sleeping patterns meant that we got woken up earlier than we'd normally wake by our friends doing brekkie etc inthe kitchen next door, they were limited in using the lounge til we were awake, etc. So whilst it was OK for a few days, I wouldn't have recommended it to anyone for a 2 week holiday and for that reason we were thinking of just advertising ours as 6 occupancy only, rather than a potential of 8.

We thought that whilst the theory was OK, most UK visitors would have found it a bit of a pain in reality. We did. But we don't get a lot of enquiries from UK visitors wanting more than 6 people.

Currently we advertise as 6 + 2 but we do say that the sofabeds are intended for overnight or short stay guests.

However, as Susan says, we do get a lot of enquiries from French, Spanish and Italians who want to squidge in as many people as possible for a whole 2 weeks - I've had one person ask to put 13 in!!! (I said no!). We are regularly asked about 8 people, which in theory we do have space for, up to 9 if there is a baby who can use a cot.

We hadn't thought about charging a supplement for more than 6, I suppose mainly because with 8 people, in our view, everyone is "making do". But if 8 people stay for 2 weeks, they do use more leccy, water, wear and tear etc.

I hate the thought of people not enjoying themselves because they are squished in (although our house is a good size and plenty of living accom, its not as if once people are up and about they'd be squished up).

But if this is what the european market expect and are happy with then maybe we should just go for it. So what is everyone elses' experience with 'extras' - do the european market seem to prefer to get a cheaper rental which is offset against slightly less comfortable sleeping arrangements? I suppose as long as we explain that if people use the sofabeds they have to share wardrobe space then they know what to expect...

And does the mess/cleaning etc generated by 8 people make it a less attractive proposition, even with a supplement charged?

Sorry, I know I've answered a question with a question but you have really set me thinking, Maryjane. Hopefully you will get lots of views on this subject because I don't know which way to go on it either....

[Bellywobble]

Would it help to supply one of those covered clothes rail thingies that can be put up and taken down as necessary?

I agree that its a pain not to have space to put things. I would hate it, but I think a lot of people are quite happy to "muddle in". As long as they know what to expect when they book, they will probably be happy not to have to go up in price to have another room.

[CostaBlanca]

Hi Knightowl,
If you are paying a £1,000 (plus/minus) per week for 3 bedroom villa, surely it would be better/more comfortable for all the party to pay some more for a 4 bedroom villa. I have a 4 bedroomed villa plus 2 sofa beds but would only sell for a max of 8.. Even with a average size pool, any more than 8 people using it at the same time is a crowd.
I have seen Spanish families of 8 and 10 squeeze into 2 bedroom apartments Not for me.

Mary Jane,

here in Spain, you can still buy 80cm wide beds and you can also buy companion (not sure of the name) beds where the second mattress and frame slides in under the first bed. Maybe an option if your room is wide enough.

[la vache!]

Hi Knightowl,
most of my French guests who 'squidge' usually stay for 4 nights or less, so it isn't a long time to be uncomfortable! I charge about 10€ - 15€ per night per person extra, just to cover the water and wear & tear. The French hate paying a lot for their accommodation and seem happy to sacrifice comfort and privacy for 'premier prix' and so I'm happy to oblige with the sofa beds - it isn't something I would want to sleep on during a holiday either! However, I get a lot of shoulder season and winter bookings from the French, so for me it is worth having the extra 'emergency' sofa beds in the houses as this is what they seem to want.

[Sue Dyer]

I've got one of the "slide underneath beds" and they are great. There isn't much of a gap between the two beds when they are up but if they are both used it is usually a couple of children sleeping in there and they find it cosy. Most of my bookings are couples so I leave just the one single bed up and the place looks roomier. (I used the room as a dressing room when we use the place!).

I know places smaller than mine who have squidged a sofa bed in the lounge too but I wouldn't like that for all of the reasons mentioned above if it was my holiday. Different things float different folks boats though.....

[cromercrabholiday]

I remember sleeping 12 on a 34ft catamaran years back - now that was friendly! We had sailed it down to South Brittany for a fortnight and had a night with the second crew, who were sailing it back to UK.

But you are right, when a French boat arrived at a marina it would be covered with people. Then it moored up and another four or five would appear from down below.

John

[A-two]

I've got one of the "slide underneath beds" and they are great. ....

In the US, these beds are called "trundles", which are usually twin size/ single beds, not doubles (maybe there's a French translation for this word?) I agree that these are much better than bunk beds, which have limited appeal. Younger than around 5 years, they may fall. Older than around 10 years, they may not fit. Parents may not like bunk beds for safety reasons and cleaners certainly don't like them. They are a real pain to make up properly and change the sheets. Go for the trundle option given the choice.

Regarding sofa beds, when we started out, we thought ours was a good thing, but it created problems with people wanting to exceed our occupancy limit and then being cramped and not happy, only "making do". I agree with Knightowl, it wasn't very satisfactory, hence we decided to go for quality not quantity and have not regretted it.

We removed the sofa bed, reduced the occupancy limit from 10 people to 8 people and at the same time, we also raised our rates. As a result, we're busier than ever and now getting some pretty high flyers. At the time we really didn't know if it was going to work, and felt it could have gone either way, but we took a big gamble and luckily it paid off.

Obviously you must do what is right for you, and your experience/market in France may be different, but if you mention sofa beds, you are inviting people to cram themselves in. Susan has made a very good argument for why this is a good thing in the shoulder/ low season, whereas for us it sends the wrong message at every time of year. Even our high season rates looked very cheap when divided by lots of extra people trying to sneak by us for a party, and we found that by offering the sofa bed as an extra, it was assumed that we would also accept extra sleeping bags on the floor "for friends of the children, they won't mind". No, I know kids don't mind, but I do.

After a couple of people then said, "well, you're offering a sofa as an extra bed, so what's the difference between that and a couple of extra sleeping bags on the floor?" that was it. We deleted the sofa bed.

Now we say that everyone has to have a bed in a bedroom and there's no argument. There are no extra beds and anyone who asks if they can sleep on the couch/bring sleeping bags for the floor is told that we are not offering a student crash house, even if they are OK with it as parents. (I feel entitled to say this as I live with teenagers myself and know they will sleep anywhere, 10 to a room given the chance, and that as parents, we are very tempted to agree to almost anything for a quiet life). It's easy to say no to other people's children, it's our own that are the problem....

Just another point of view, and as I say, we're in a different market to you, but in our experience, removing the sofa bed and reducing the occupancy by 2 people was one of the better decisions we have made. The devil is in the details......it's a big decision...good luck!

[la vache!]

Joanna,
I agree with you - although I have sofa beds, they are NOT included in the advertising for the number of people the properties sleep. They are in the detail of the cottages accommodation and if people ask if a coule of extra people can stay, then they are there. The people who owned the property before us used to include the sofa beds in the number of people and I changed this immediately. It is really only for the the French market, long weekends, as I said before, I certainly wouldn't want people sleeping on them on a regular basis! However, if it means the difference in getting a booking or not getting a booking I'd rather have the option of being able to sleep a couple of extra people. I recently changed all the sofas in the properties, but made the decision to keep one sofabed in all properties, just for these occasions.
Have to agree with you on the bunk beds, they are a real pain in the neck to make up!!!

[aillis]

wWwe have sofa beds but never use them instead we bought some "click clack " bed which are fold up beds on wheels if clients have extra people they can use them . I think they prefer to have an extra bed in a bedroom rather than someone using a sofa bed in the lounge

[Ju]

I agree with Joanna. If you want to offer a quality product don't offer bunk beds, or sofa beds. We want our guests to be confortable, and that means everybody having a proper bed. It pays dividends in terms of repeat bookings, if people get a good nights sleep for 2 weeks they are far more likely to come back.

As a parent with two young children, I do not book anywhere that offers bunk beds. Partly for the safety concerns, and partly as it always causes arguments.

Ju

[maryjane]

As this is my first time posing a question on the forum I am really pleased with the response. OK so more questions were posed as well but it really has helped clarify my thoughts and priorities on the subject. I don't like the thought of people being crapmped and not sleeping well - I would rather they were comfortable and booked again! Am now going to source some 'trundle' beds where the option is there if needed but the room can be more spacious if not. I too had wondered about the inconvenience of making a bunk bed and take on board the comment about safety and limited age range suitable for.

As for the sofa bed, am still tempted but only as an extra for limited period. We are making two gites from one large barn and will have a medium sized pool so would not want to have too many people sharing the other facilitis on offer.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Maryjane

[la vache!]

I'm not sure why a bunk bed doesn't constitute a proper bed, the ones I have are as big as a single bed and the matresses are the same thickness. It clearly states on the website that they are there, it is up to people booking whether or not they want to use them or not. They all have safely bars on the top bunk and children under 6 are not allowed to sleep on the top bunk anyway, so there doesn't seem to be much of a safety issue anymore.

[A-two]

Susan,
Good point. A bunk bed does constitute a proper bed, absolutely, whereas I'm not sure the same could be said of a trundle.

(Could this thread go on as long as the towels?)