Spain Holiday now have nearly all adverts carrying a Licence number if they are in Catalunya. THE ONLY SITE DOING THIS. More power to their elbow. Ole! Ole! Ole!
I sincerely hope this brings them more owners when they are seen as the best up front honest site.
Illegal competition
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costa-brava
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kevsboredagain
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My website link has always been almost impossible to find other than by accident on spain-holiday. I get very few click-throughs. However I do like their responsible attitude to compliance with registration laws - why should I be up front, declaring and paying my taxes when 99% of holiday home owners in Spain don't? That's a rhetorical question because I would not fail to declare, and sadly for most owners the answer will still be 'don't advertise with spain-holiday if they demand your registration details' 
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costa-brava
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It doesn't appear to be that way Casscat. They sent out a warning to everybody and it looks like nearly everybody has complied. The law requires the owner to display their number in all advertising. Spain Hol have been informing us for over a year now about all the quirks in the various regions and it really was a question of pulling us all into line. Like I said, I applaud them and I think it will strengthen their position as number one site for Spain. I certainly hope so. It leaves the bigger sites playing catch-up.
It could also decimate their business if existing advertisers don't register and SH refuse to renew their adverts.
I don't think it is the job of a listing site to insist that owners register their properties, their T&Cs must carry an indemnity.
I don't think it is the job of a listing site to insist that owners register their properties, their T&Cs must carry an indemnity.
Some guests just need a sympathetic pat. On the head. With a hammer.
Maybe only accepting registered owners is a good marketing feature for them. It could also help with preventing fraud which seems to be a massive problem for other sites.Marks wrote:
I don't think it is the job of a listing site to insist that owners register their properties, their T&Cs must carry an indemnity.
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kevsboredagain
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They don't insist, but the law in some parts of Spain requires that all advertising for the rental show the license number in the advert. Who else can enforce this if not the company who displays the advert?Marks wrote: I don't think it is the job of a listing site to insist that owners register their properties, their T&Cs must carry an indemnity.
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costa-brava
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Marks wrote:
"I don't think it is the job of a listing site to insist that owners register their properties"
It isn't a question of whether it's their job. It is the law. All adverts MUST have a licence number (ie. a number of 6 digits that has the prefix HUTG or HUTB or HUTT etc depending on the nearest city)
The owner and the listing site are EQUALLY responsible and the draft reading of the newer more robust edict finished on the 15th of September. It will become law when the Generalitat get organised after last weekend's elections. Eventually everybody will have to apply. The authorities will go after the ones that don't show their number and the penalties are substantial. But as we know the law in Spain is slow moving and its imposition even slower.
SH already had the highest rate of compliance but after the warnings they sent out it has moved up to about 80% and in some towns 100%. As yet I haven't seen any drop off in numbers. There's no way it's going to decimate their business. The people who want a site like SH are, in the main, honest Johns who want everything to be ticketyboo. I have zero doubt that it will be their key to further success.
What we need now is to get the message out to the potential renters so that they can book with more security.
If you want a secure holiday rental in Barcelona, Costa Brava, Costa Dorada or the Pyrennes, then make sure it has a number that looks like HUTG-000904. Just google that number and see where it takes you.
"I don't think it is the job of a listing site to insist that owners register their properties"
It isn't a question of whether it's their job. It is the law. All adverts MUST have a licence number (ie. a number of 6 digits that has the prefix HUTG or HUTB or HUTT etc depending on the nearest city)
The owner and the listing site are EQUALLY responsible and the draft reading of the newer more robust edict finished on the 15th of September. It will become law when the Generalitat get organised after last weekend's elections. Eventually everybody will have to apply. The authorities will go after the ones that don't show their number and the penalties are substantial. But as we know the law in Spain is slow moving and its imposition even slower.
SH already had the highest rate of compliance but after the warnings they sent out it has moved up to about 80% and in some towns 100%. As yet I haven't seen any drop off in numbers. There's no way it's going to decimate their business. The people who want a site like SH are, in the main, honest Johns who want everything to be ticketyboo. I have zero doubt that it will be their key to further success.
What we need now is to get the message out to the potential renters so that they can book with more security.
If you want a secure holiday rental in Barcelona, Costa Brava, Costa Dorada or the Pyrennes, then make sure it has a number that looks like HUTG-000904. Just google that number and see where it takes you.
Does this apply to all forms of advertising? I would like to be able to accept adverts for holiday lets on my website but it's not exclusively a listings site and will not take payments or charge commision. I'm wondering at what point the publisher becomes responsible for ensuring compliance?costabravarent wrote:All adverts MUST have a licence number (ie. a number of 6 digits that has the prefix HUTG or HUTB or HUTT etc depending on the nearest city)
To look at it another way, if an owner advertises using Adwords would Google become responsible for ensuring compliance with Spanish law?
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kevsboredagain
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Would you advertise heroin or cocaine on your website? No? Why not?DaveT wrote:Does this apply to all forms of advertising? I would like to be able to accept adverts for holiday lets on my website but it's not exclusively a listings site and will not take payments or charge commision. I'm wondering at what point the publisher becomes responsible for ensuring compliance?costabravarent wrote:All adverts MUST have a licence number (ie. a number of 6 digits that has the prefix HUTG or HUTB or HUTT etc depending on the nearest city)
Google is a search engine and will also list illegal sites just the same as legal ones. Obviously there are many ongoing debates on what search engines should or should not block.
No. Because the law is very clear on these things. However, not all compliance issues are quite so black and white. Hence my asking questions.kevsboredagain wrote:
Would you advertise heroin or cocaine on your website? No? Why not?
I wasn't talking about the search results. I was talking about Adwords, I.e. ads that people pay Google to display next to the search results. In this scenario Google is just another website, I could have used Facebook, Twitter or any other site as an example. At what point do these sites become responsible for the legal compliance of their advertisers?kevsboredagain wrote:
Google is a search engine and will also list illegal sites just the same as legal ones. Obviously there are many ongoing debates on what search engines should or should not block.
it is not clear.At what point do these sites become responsible for the legal compliance of their advertisers?
Just look at the case between AirBnB and several European cities. Laws were modified to allow certain activity in teh tourist rental sector. I believe each one has it's own solution to this problem. However I believe the law remains with the owner to comply with regulations.
Personally running a fully legalised business I would not want to list on a website which also encourages illegal businesses. Just the same as I would not use UBER fora taxi service.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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kevsboredagain
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A listing site knows that the properties being advertised are for rent and if there is a law requiring a license number to be shown in advertising then it is fairly obvious that they are responsible for displaying it.
On the other hand, Google adWords are simply sponsored search terms. Google does not know that "house near mountains" is a rental property, a house for sale, a brothel or a military lookout post. Without employing people to contact every website in the world, Google is still a search engine and not a listing site, whether you pay for adWords or not.
If you have your own website in a region of Spain and you advertise properties for rent, you should also be aware of any local laws.
Common sense applies to who or who should or can control how properties are advertised.
On the other hand, Google adWords are simply sponsored search terms. Google does not know that "house near mountains" is a rental property, a house for sale, a brothel or a military lookout post. Without employing people to contact every website in the world, Google is still a search engine and not a listing site, whether you pay for adWords or not.
If you have your own website in a region of Spain and you advertise properties for rent, you should also be aware of any local laws.
Common sense applies to who or who should or can control how properties are advertised.
That's exactly why I'm trying to make sure I get this rightcasasantoestevo wrote:I would not want to list on a website which also encourages illegal businesses.
Unfortunately, in my area (Murcia) the law doesn't appear to be very clear on what is required.
@Kev I'm not sure I agree with you that the distinctions between different types of sites are quite so clear cut. But I understand your point.
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kevsboredagain
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It's the same in Valencia. The license was optional but now apparently mandatory. What I find staggering is that people who do really want to comply with the law find it so difficult so actually determine what the law is. However, if you get it wrong, the fines are severe.DaveT wrote:
Unfortunately, in my area (Murcia) the law doesn't appear to be very clear on what is required.
All it would take is for 1 official person to send an official letter to all major listing sites adverting properties to rent. The sites would then pass on this information to all their clients and it wouldn't be long before people who don't list, hear about it through the grapevine. So easy yet it will never happen and we will all be left in the dark.