Music license

[John Coldwell]

I know that licenses are different in France. When I found out that a license was needed before you could offer guests tea or coffee I thought 'oh no!' - and then I found out that the licenses didn't cost anything.
But what about music?
Here in the UK my friend the hairdresser has to pay an annual fee to play a radio in her salon.
And, when I've found my little hotel, what do I need before I can have live music, either inside or outside?
Could anyone please advise?
Thank you.

[Cassis]

It's worse than that - if you provide a radio alarm for guests then in theory you have to pay recording artists rights to SACEM. But don't worry - nobody does if it's just a radio alarm!

However, if you're providing TV or music and want to stay on the right side of the law, here is the site you need to check out: https://clients.sacem.fr/autorisations

[louloup]

I received the form from SACEM on Saturday, with a demand for a cheque for €250, apparently it is payable if you play music while someone is holding on the phone or have music on your website. I don't even have a TV for me! Peace and quiet is why people come here

For small businesses like mine if I did have to pay it would just mean working even longer for nothing.

As I get older I am finding running a chambres d'hôtes harder and harder and the break even point for all the obligatory expenses, running costs, cotisations etc is becoming more difficult to achieve. With all the additional expenses it doesn't feel like something that I can continue to do & a much reduced level so I shall give up completely in a couple of years.

[French Cricket]

As I get older I am finding running a chambres d'hôtes harder and harder and the break even point for all the obligatory expenses, running costs, cotisations etc is becoming more difficult to achieve. With all the additional expenses it doesn't feel like something that I can continue to do & a much reduced level so I shall give up completely in a couple of years.

I completely get that, louloup. It's becoming 'professionalised' and regulated more each year I have to say that I'm really looking forward to this season - our first as self-catering; it means quite a hefty reduction in income but that's counterbalanced by fewer outgoings and the unknown luxury of time!

And welcome, John Coldwell! You'll find a wealth of information and experience here. Just to let you know that for a chambre d'hôte, a licence to serve tea and coffee at breakfast is no longer required, though you do still need one to serve wine and/or other drinks with dinner.

[Moliere]

I must say, although I've not had experience of running a B&B, I could never understand why someone would opt for that rather than a nice simple self-catering business. The work and the bureaucracy involved really seem quite disproportionate to the rather meagre rewards imho.

Enjoy your first year of freedom, FC!

Mols

[louloup]

You are right, as a business it doesn't make sense! For me, it was a way of enjoying a bigger house than we need. Our pile of old stones in France. I don't regret that.

I'm with Gîtes de France and I still don't know whether that was a great decision or not. On the plus side, we had some training from them, some good suggestions about layout and a detailed accreditation document that was useful. There was also the grant, but that involved greater expense in the first place, so although it was welcome when it arrived, it didn't represent a financial gain in the end.

They also generate booking from guests that I like, their contract is good etc

But they drive me mad with 'ideas' and initiatives, where they spend more money that my annual turnover on things that don't seem very effective or well thought out to me.

There were millions spent on a local tourist attraction that didn't do as well as hoped and was expensive, G de Fr suggested more than once that we signed up for their initiative where we refunded our guests the price of their tickets to said attraction, so guests happy, tourist attraction happy, G de Fr happy & me, exhausted and profit free

I also did the drinks licence training at the start, when it was three days and expensive, shortly afterwards they decided it was a ridiculous requirement to make chambres d'hôtes owners go through all the stuff about running a bar and cut it to one day that was much cheaper (my training was nearly €900!)

When my licence and obligation to G de Fr expire thats it for me. I would love to continue accepting a few bookings a year, making sure that my guests have a really good time and providing much needed accommodation during certain really busy weekends in the Summer, but it just isn't worth the extra worry and expense. Locally a lot of chambres d'hôtes have closed for similar reasons and it does cause problems when there are popular local events.

[French Cricket]

Lots have closed here too, louloup, and it's the nicest/most 'unprofessional' (in a good way)/most convivial ones, mostly with just a couple of rooms, that have gone. It's very sad but completely understandable.

Mols, I did it quite simply because I loved doing it! I had two places in the UK and then our cdh here - 20 years altogether, with either two or three rooms. My hourly rate I reckoned to be around 35 centimes but it was a great lifestyle; I've got to know so many interesting people that I wouldn't otherwise have met and have spent some fantastic evenings round the dinner table.

But I've reached my sell-by date . I've had too many years of never being able to go out between April and October unless it's to shop; of giving my guests the lowdown on walks I can never do myself because there's no time, markets that I can never get to because of guest breakfasts and restaurants I never eat at because I'm sick of the sight of food. In my 9 years of living on the most beautiful bit of the north Norfolk coast, I went to the beach (which was within walking distance) precisely twice. In my 9 years of living in the Ariège, I've barely ever left the house.

Enough's enough. I'm busy preparing the barn and garden for the season and I have a new spring in my step this year!

Sorry, John Coldwell, for somewhat hijacking your post, especially as I doubt it's what you want to hear! But it is the reality of this lifestyle .

[Cassis]

We dumped Gites de France this year as they were a waste of space. Too many meetings, rubbish 'promotions' which made no financial sense and not enough action. We only joined them to get a grant for converting the guest rooms, as what we got more than paid for their subs over the 10 years we had to stick with them to qualify for the grant.

I don't think there's significantly more bureaucracy or regulation in running a B&B than there is in running a gite, but you do have to be the kind of person who can tolerate having strangers in part of your home and not mind the bienvenus and aurevoirs.

I agree that evening meals sound like a lot of work and worry for very little return. I couldn't stand the idea of entertaining a load of strangers to dinner, clearing tables and loading dishwashers when I would rather be watching the telly or reading a book. Evenings are strictly for relaxing and doing our own thing!

I think to avoid getting jaded it's important to have whole days off for yourself. We could have guests virtually non-stop April to September but we try to make sure we have gaps during that period. Outside that period burnout is not an issue so we stay open anyway.

So with no meals, only three rooms and not accepting many one night room requests, this "job" is never going to kill us through overwork. It's only the occasional awkward guest that makes it seem like real work.

Compared to my old "proper" job this is a lot less lucrative, but it's still enough to live on. However, I don't think we would have been so relaxed about it if we hadn't been debt free with decent pensions already in prospect before we started out. So we do owe thanks to our old jobs for that, even if we hated them (mine particularly so).

When we turned 55 a couple of years ago we started getting even more "picky" and taking more time off in summer for gardening and chilling, but I can't see us stopping completely, at least in the immediate future. After all, we would miss complaining to all and sundry about the occasional pain-in-the arse guests, and it is still bringing in enough to cover the bills.

All in all, I reckon it's not such a bad lifestyle and I hope that John also finds the pros outweigh the cons.

[French Cricket]

Cassis, I think you might have to educate me - what is this thing you call a 'day off'? If it's what I think it is, I haven't had one of those since 1996. (And no, I'm not kidding).

Will I know what to do with one when I get one?

[Cassis]

Ha ha ha! I remember our first full year we worked our nuts off because we took every booking without question and were stowed out with one-nighters. Nightmare! It wasn't what we had chucked in much better paid jobs for, so we swiftly changed our tack the next year.

[Moliere]

I don't think there's significantly more bureaucracy or regulation in running a B&B than there is in running a gite

Really? In my case the bureaucracy and regulation were precisely nil. I passed my figures to my accountant once a year, he filed the tax returns, the DGFP wrote back saying I owed nothing, end of.

I rather got the impression that CdH was a bit more bothersome, but I'm probably wrong.

Good decision though, FC!

Mols

[Cassis]

I rather got the impression that CdH was a bit more bothersome, but I'm probably wrong.

Mols

Yup!

[dorie]

What a good discussion! I thought I would add a few lines, particularly for the original poster and new comers to the industry.

We have done both and actually much prefer the CdH option. The admin / official stuff is about the same...ok you have to do the course for your licence for CdH but it wasn't a huge hassle

Pretty much the same as Cassis, went at it a bit hard for the first 18 months but now we concentrate on our peak seasons (Dec-April, July-September) and take the rest of the time off.

In summer, we cook twice a week, we try and take bookings in such a way that we don't have a changeover / new arrival every day and pushed back our check in time to 4pm. All helped with making sure we left the house for more than the supermarket!

It is true that the profit per night isn't huge but it is enough and it is servicing our lifestyle and allowing us to live in a big house in a beautiful location when we close interseason. The rare difficult guest always gets me down but there are very few jobs that you don't meet someone you would rather not...and in regular jobs, you can be stuck with a difficult colleague or client, at least these ones leave after a few days

[French Cricket]

Well, I take my hat off to those of you doing CDH who actually manage to have a life, and I truly don't know how you do it!

Maybe it's because we've always made everything from scratch (very rural: no choice, even if I wanted one!), so every single day I'd make yoghurt, at least one sort of bread, at least one kind of savoury or sweet cake, some kind of fruit dish (stuffed or baked or whatever), muesli or granola, sometimes pancakes or muffins or a cooked dish ... and then all the jams and curds ... breakfast for four people would start with me baking at 6am and finish with me clearing the table usually after 11am.

On dinner nights - three times a week - I'd start cooking at 1pm, continue cooking until apéro time at 7.30pm (with a brief stop for a cuppa), and usually we'd all leave the table some time after midnight.

Maybe I'm just a wimp but for me that lifestyle definitely has a shelf life!

[dorie]

I feel I have missed out, I want your breakfast!

We are pretty much the same with regard to cooking from scratch; pasta, bread, stocks, jams, ice creams etc and in winter it is intense, 15 hour days for 17 weeks but for me, I love then having 3 months off, not something a regular job could give me. I do think it has a shelf life though and can see how each year gets harder. We hired someone this year to do all the cleaning and that made a nice bit of breathing space.

I am pleased to see there are others that take it so seriously with regard to quality. A lot of places I know say they do the above yet start in the kitchen at
6pm, we both know that isn't possible!