Cleaning concerns!!

Agencies and other headaches, keys and cleaners, running costs and contracts...in short, all the things we spend so much of our time doing behind the scenes.<br>
Ripley
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Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:49 pm

Cleaning concerns!!

Post by Ripley »

Hi everyone,

I need to share my concerns with LMH as I know I will get some good advice as always :)

I have been getting my 4 bed cottage in Devon ready for my very first guests next week. I found someone to do the changeover (or I thought I did).

We live away, so I arranged for them to do a 'spring clean' before we arrived so the whole place would be spick and span for the season. It was not. The cleaner said it was a misunderstanding - she thought it was a general clean - even tho I checked back thru emails and we both refer to the 'spring clean'. I have spent the whole week pulling out furniture, cleaning cobwebs, cleaning filthy windows etc etc. I only had to wipe under the kick boards in the kitchen for it top come out covered in fluff. The cottage is old and hasn't been cleaned properly since last Oct!

They are charging us £60 (including laundry) per changeover. I thought this was too good to be true and now I am seriously worried. Especially as, when I voiced my concerns, she said, " In my experience, guests complain about the decor and not the cleaning":?

My parents live near my holiday place and have been helping me clean it - am wondering if I should ask them to step in while I find someone else.

What do the lovely people of LMH think? Help, I'm stressed!
Bunny
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Location: South of England

Post by Bunny »

I see two problems here. First of all £60.00 does sound very cheap to me. I do my own cleaning for a 3 bedroom cottage and I have to really go at it to do a really thorough job and get it done in the time frame. I can't imagine an employed cleaner would bust a gut like I do, but I wouldn't do it for anyone else for £60.00 including laundry.

Second, is the misconception of the requirements of cleaning a holiday cottage. What exactly is her experience? What makes her think guests complain about décor and not cleaning? It sounds to me like she does not understand holiday rentals. Even if she has only been doing a 'general' clean I would not expect to find fluff under the kickboards and old cobwebs everywhere.

Has she cleaned a holiday cottage before? Have you explained to her that it requires a much more thorough clean (more akin to a spring clean) after every let?

I doubt there was any misunderstanding. She is just being defensive for being caught out.

I would have a chat and tell her exactly what standard is required, but ask her if she is struggling to get her on side? I would give her a written to do/check list and ask her if she thinks it is achieveable. If so, you could agree to pay her more on the understanding that it is done more thoroughly. Could you just ask your parents for now, to come and inspect it for you, so that she knows someone will be monitoring her? If there's no immediate improvement, then I would cut loose pretty quick and ask parents to help short term.
vacancesthezan
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Re: Cleaning concerns!!

Post by vacancesthezan »

Ripley wrote:Hi everyone,

I need to share my concerns with LMH as I know I will get some good advice as always :)

I have been getting my 4 bed cottage in Devon ready for my very first guests next week. I found someone to do the changeover (or I thought I did).

We live away, so I arranged for them to do a 'spring clean' before we arrived so the whole place would be spick and span for the season. It was not. The cleaner said it was a misunderstanding - she thought it was a general clean - even tho I checked back thru emails and we both refer to the 'spring clean'. I have spent the whole week pulling out furniture, cleaning cobwebs, cleaning filthy windows etc etc. I only had to wipe under the kick boards in the kitchen for it top come out covered in fluff. The cottage is old and hasn't been cleaned properly since last Oct!

They are charging us £60 (including laundry) per changeover. I thought this was too good to be true and now I am seriously worried. Especially as, when I voiced my concerns, she said, " In my experience, guests complain about the decor and not the cleaning":?

My parents live near my holiday place and have been helping me clean it - am wondering if I should ask them to step in while I find someone else.

What do the lovely people of LMH think? Help, I'm stressed!
4 bedroom cottage equates to at least 4 hours cleaning - more if children have been staying. Plus laundry?

Price seems unrealistic to say the least - 1½ to 2 times sounds better.

Why dont you make a list of what you would expect to be cleaned between renters by room then present it to the cleaner (s) and ask them if they can do this in the time and for the money. Then test them out with the list. They may even work it out for themselves!

If you look back this subject has been covered before and LMHers have sent their own lists as a start.
tavi
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Location: Algarve

Post by tavi »

I think it might be an idea - if you're still in the property to spend some time listing precisely what you expect from

a) a spring-clean.
b) a changeover clean.

My cleaning lady found it very helpful to have this. I typed it out, entitled it cleaning guidance notes and gave her a copy.

I'd also time yourself so you can work out how much time each task takes, in what order you would suggest it's done, and ultimately how much time and money you need to budget/for.

It might seem obvious to you what a "spring clean" is but each property is different. My changeover guidance contained small details that were easily missed like crumbs in the recessed kitchen cupboard handles.

Might also be helpful to your parents or any temporary cleaner you use.
Ripley
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Post by Ripley »

She says she has loads of holiday lets. I possibly didn't explain what was required fully enough when I showed her around - but she seemed so competent I didn't feel I had to.

I've suggested sending her a check list of what I expect to be done, with a price adjustment. Her emails are suddenly less friendly and to be honest, all of the above has made my mind up.

Sorry parents, you need to step up to the plate!

Thanks everyone. Reassurance and good advice as always xx
russellt
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Post by russellt »

It’s very difficult when you start out because you want to fill the gaps in your service as quickly as possible in order to bring your accommodation to market. We were fortunate, in that our first cleaner was with us for more than 6 years, and our current one is in her 2nd year.

Our rough process is that we have defined a very detailed list of requirements for general turnaround, mid-stay clean and spring clean. We look for cleaners on local notice boards, official advertising and word-of-mouth recommendations. They could be either from organised FHL cleaning/turnaround businesses or local people who are just looking for continuous part-time cleaning work.

We send them the cleaning specifications and interview a short-list at the property before making a decision. It is important to us not only that we believe they can do the job well, and that they are able to offer references, but also that the work fits with their existing lifestyle/workload/family commitments.

The two we have chosen so far have really worked out because we feed them continuous work, they have proven that they do a thorough job, we get good feedback from the guests(we ask specifically about the cleanliness of the property when they arrived), and very important, that the communication channels are open and the cleaners communicate well with us.

Over time, there is a tendency for the quality of cleaning to drop slightly, and short-cuts are taken. If we notice anything untoward, we raise it as an issue, and get it sorted asap. I cannot stress enough the importance of the communications channels, for diaries, booking updates, cleaner’s holidays, etc, and for them to raise any issues with us. As a result of good communications and a good relationship, our cleaners care for our property and would make us aware of anything happening in or near the property which might be of concern.

On the points you have made, I’m assuming your 4 bedroom property could sleep 7/8 people. £60 per turnaround + laundry does not seem much for that, particularly if the house is fully occupied. Though, of course this is dependent upon where your property is located.
I found someone to do the changeover
– did you meet them at the property and walk them through a cleaning specification? Did you define ‘spring clean’? Did you take up references, or were they somehow recommended? Did you ask them how long they expect it will take them to do the job?
£60 – I thought this was too good to be true
For a 4 bedroom house, I think it probably is. Did you test the local market for turnaround price indications? Cheapest is not always best.
Guests complain about the décor and not the cleaning
– I disagree. Your advertising photos will show the décor,(so guests kinda know what to expect), but not the cleaning. Guests are very sensitive about cleanliness, particularly the kitchen sink, the fridge, the beds and the bathroom, followed by the hob, the oven, carpets/flooring and the cutlery/crockery.

It would be unfortunate if you have to call in your parents to help out, however it is a useful back-stop. Perhaps you should go back to your existing cleaner and provide them with a detailed room-by-room cleaning specification for full turnaround, mid-stay refresh and spring clean, and agree how you will communicate with each other. You will be able to tell from their reaction if they are committed to your standards or think you are being unnecessarily over-prescriptive. If the latter, I don’t think they are the right person for the job in the long-term. You should start looking again.

The good news is that there are good people out there who will do a good job. You just have to find them. :?
Web: https://yofftoo.com/property/esmes-cottage
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salmoncottage
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Post by salmoncottage »

We have found that no matter who cleans your place, they are unlikey to do it to the standard that you would. So you need to strike a balance between the time it takes to turn it around, the acceptable standard a guest would expect and the cost. Try doing a turnaround yourself in the 4/5 hours between guests, you could compile a set of guidlines to follow then you'll get an idea what it takes. We would never have the cleaners do the laundry, just too much toing and froing, so suggest getting on good terms with a local laundry or employ someone separately to handle it. £10 an hour per person should give you some idea of the final turnaround cost. If you are lucky enough to get cleaners you can 'trust' always make a point of surprising them occasionally just when they're about to leave..... :twisted:
'Oh, I do like to be beside the seaside'
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greenbarn
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Post by greenbarn »

Our 3 bedroom property, one bathroom one wetroom, lounge (with logburner) large(ish) kitchen/dining room, on 3 floors, tiled floors everywhere except top bedroom which has carpet - typically 5 to 6 hours to service to an acceptable standard (ie very good to excellent).

I'd suggest that anyone who believes that guests aren't too bothered about standards of cleanliness is not used to working to the standard that most of us (and our guests) would deem acceptable in today's market; given her claimed experience I'd also suspect that she would not be swayed from her view, and I don't see a good relationship being achievable.
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Cymraes
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Post by Cymraes »

Ripley wrote:She says she has loads of holiday lets. I possibly didn't explain what was required fully enough when I showed her around - but she seemed so competent I didn't feel I had to.
If she has "loads of holiday lets" does she actually have the time to do them all? With 3-4 hours cleaning per let needed she really couldn't do more than 2 a day at best and if the property is left in a right state ( it happens), cleaning can take a lot longer.
kg1
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Post by kg1 »

Cymraes wrote:
Ripley wrote:She says she has loads of holiday lets. I possibly didn't explain what was required fully enough when I showed her around - but she seemed so competent I didn't feel I had to.
If she has "loads of holiday lets" does she actually have the time to do them all? With 3-4 hours cleaning per let needed she really couldn't do more than 2 a day at best and if the property is left in a right state ( it happens), cleaning can take a lot longer.
Yes, that was my thought - how many is she doing per day?

I always use the term 'deep clean' but my cleaner is a gem anyway!
Ripley
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Post by Ripley »

greenbarn wrote: I'd suggest that anyone who believes that guests aren't too bothered about standards of cleanliness is not used to working to the standard that most of us (and our guests) would deem acceptable in today's market; given her claimed experience I'd also suspect that she would not be swayed from her view, and I don't see a good relationship being achievable.
I think you're right. Her company is actually marketed as a home cleaning business, so I guess that is the differece, When she said 3 of them would do the changeover in 1 1/2 to 2 hours, I naively thought they were some kind of hard working 'dream team'!

Thanks for everyone's comments. I am going to put together a comprehensive check list, position my parents in charge temporarily, explore other options (of which I have a couple) and be far more thorough and assertive in my interview technique! I don't feel I can go anywhere with this particular company, far too cheap and entirely different expectations.

Thank goodness I'm discovering this now when I have the odd week here and there and not the summer wehn I'm almost fully booked...yikes!

thanks LMH
amandajane
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Post by amandajane »

Ripley, whereabouts in Devon are you.

Last summer my longstanding cleaner was taken seriously ill in the middle of the summer and I needed a replacement fast as I live 200 miles away.


I found a company who have been great and stepped in straight away. I can give you their number if you're anywhere near. We are in the Kingsbridge/Dartmouth area. They do charge more - £90 for two bedrooms including laundry but the service is excellent and they often pop in if the cottage is empty and send me photos of anything I need to see.
Ripley
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Post by Ripley »

Thank you amandajane - we are a bit further away in East Devon unfortunately.

Having said that, there has been a development since Sunday. I received an email via OD, from a lady with a new, cleaning company,asking if I needed anyone. The upshot is, we've spoken on the phone, I made my cleaning expectations very clear, asked LOADS of questions and am waiting on her sending me references.

It does sound promising - she has a team of 5, including her, and based on a 5 hour clean, plus laundry, would cost me £90. She has 5 changeovers already on a Saturday, but with all but one being a 2 bed, splits her team and assures me an hour, possibly 1 1/2 hours with 5 of them should be plenty.

I'm currently writing that check list of course :wink: If all appears well, I'm going to show her round when I'm back down at the end of May - until then I've informed my poor parents they're working overtime still!
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