Friends of mine who live in France and have done for 12 years have decided to apply for permanant residency there.
The husband is quite a bit older than the wife and I wonder how this new status would affect the wife's ability to return the UK to live in future, if she wished to live in the UK again.
I would be interested to know how this might affect their choices in the future.
French residency question....
French residency question....
"It's a funny old world...." but full of the most amazing people. 
Sense of humour essential!
Sense of humour essential!-
Hells Bells
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There's a difference between residency and nationality, Jan.
If they've been resident in France for 12 years they already have the right to permanent residency, which you get after 12 years as a European. They can, if they wish, apply for a Titre de Séjour to confirm their residency but it's not obligatory and my experience is that not many prefectures bother to offer them to EU residents!Nobody knows, of course, whether and how this might change after the UK has formally left the UK; it may be that the UK is treated in a similar way to Switzerland and Norway in which case there wouldn't be a change. The way things are looking, that may not be the case. But residency of one country doesn't block your right to live in your country of birth.
You can apply for French nationality if you've lived here permanently for 5 years. It's a long process, requires about 1001 forms, language competency (which has to be backed up by diplomas if you're under 60), background checks and takes about 2 years. Neither France nor (at the moment, but who knows) the UK require you to give up your nationality on taking another so if they went down that route they'd have dual nationality and - if they wished - two passports.
Anyone who wants support around their right to remain in France after Brexit can PM me for details of an active Facebook group working on lots of levels.
If they've been resident in France for 12 years they already have the right to permanent residency, which you get after 12 years as a European. They can, if they wish, apply for a Titre de Séjour to confirm their residency but it's not obligatory and my experience is that not many prefectures bother to offer them to EU residents!Nobody knows, of course, whether and how this might change after the UK has formally left the UK; it may be that the UK is treated in a similar way to Switzerland and Norway in which case there wouldn't be a change. The way things are looking, that may not be the case. But residency of one country doesn't block your right to live in your country of birth.
You can apply for French nationality if you've lived here permanently for 5 years. It's a long process, requires about 1001 forms, language competency (which has to be backed up by diplomas if you're under 60), background checks and takes about 2 years. Neither France nor (at the moment, but who knows) the UK require you to give up your nationality on taking another so if they went down that route they'd have dual nationality and - if they wished - two passports.
Anyone who wants support around their right to remain in France after Brexit can PM me for details of an active Facebook group working on lots of levels.
Thank you, both those posts are so helpful. I was very worried that my friend would have a problem returning to live in the UK in the future, if she so desired.
My friend's husband will never return to the UK to live, so it doesn't affect him either way although I think he wants the peace of mind to know they can remain in France.
One lovely thing they experienced was the number of French locals who called them to check they would not be leaving France after the Brexit vote. Heartwarming for them - human kindness much needed at this moment in time.
My friend's husband will never return to the UK to live, so it doesn't affect him either way although I think he wants the peace of mind to know they can remain in France.
One lovely thing they experienced was the number of French locals who called them to check they would not be leaving France after the Brexit vote. Heartwarming for them - human kindness much needed at this moment in time.
"It's a funny old world...." but full of the most amazing people. Sense of humour essential!
Sense of humour essential!
I've been told (and read) that the language requirement for over 65s (presumably you're considered gaga at that age!) isn't so stringent - just basic competence (où est la plume de ma tante?) and maybe evidence that you're undertaking a recognised course of study to sharpen your skills. Some say that over 65s don't need any French at all, but I find that difficult to believe.French Cricket wrote:You can apply for French nationality if you've lived here permanently for 5 years. It's a long process, requires about 1001 forms, language competency (which has to be backed up by diplomas if you're under 60), background checks and takes about 2 years.
Jim
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If you're 60 or over (not 65, Jim), you don't need to produce any evidence of your capacity in French. BUT that doesn't mean you can get away without speaking the language - it simply means that your language ability is tested in your 'assimilation' interview instead.
Given that in that interview - which will last between 30 minutes and an hour - you may be questioned on your knowledge of French culture, have to discuss your financial situation or talk about your integration into French society, it goes without saying that you need to be reasonably competent!
On the other hand, no language ability is needed for permanent residency. Yet
Given that in that interview - which will last between 30 minutes and an hour - you may be questioned on your knowledge of French culture, have to discuss your financial situation or talk about your integration into French society, it goes without saying that you need to be reasonably competent!
On the other hand, no language ability is needed for permanent residency. Yet
Interesting FC. Such a lot of information (misinformation?) out there already, can only get worse. It stands to reason that somebody's desire for French nationality should go a little deeper than wanting it simply because Britain has legged it from the EU. And I'm guessing that the French authorities will be alert to this likelihood - and not too sympathetic.
Jim
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AbsolutelyJimbo wrote: Such a lot of information (misinformation?) out there already, can only get worse.
It never ceases to amaze me - and it frightens me - how wrong the 'bush telegraph' gets basic information that's all out there in the public domain, on French government websites. In French, of course!That's one of the reasons that we've set up both Facebook groups - one specifically covers all aspects of applying for French nationality. I think you're absolutely right that post-Brexit applications will - quite correctly in my view - be scrutinised a little more deeply than before. Very, very few British people have bothered to apply for nationality until now - an English friend whose citizenship came through last year was the first in our department for 12 years!
Just to show how a Government can change anything, anytime.
OH and I are both English. Both our kids were born here. They each have a UK birth certificate and passport. They have French 'acte de naissance'. Been all through the French school system here - and out the other side.
When we took our son to the Mairie at 16 to get his carte d'identite we filled in a form. The Mairie got his acte de naissance from the Prefecture, did their bit of rubber stamping etc. We produced an EDF bill to prove our residency here. He had his fingerprints taken, signed the form. Two weeks lates his French ID arrived.
Two years later we took our daughter to the same Mairie at 16 to get her carte d'identite. Did all the above. Two weeks later the Mairie said the Prefecture wanted us to confirm if our daughter was French. Yes, we said. OK, they said.
Back came a list of things to provide for an interview at the Tribunal de Petite Instance. We needed our birth certificates, her birth certificate. Our marriage certificate. Our passports. An EDF bill. Five years of 'certificate de scolarite' for our daughter to prove residency here for five years. Photo ID for our daughter had to be her UK passport because she had nothing else. All taken, with us and her, to the Tribunal. A chap looked at everything, looked at us, looked at her and asked her if she wanted to be French. A bit of rubber stamping and we walked out with a piece of paper declaring her French which we took to the Mairie and she got her carte d'identite.
At one point we thought the chap might keep her UK passport as he handled it and then opened a drawer. But, we had a plan: OH would hold him down, I would grab the passport and we'd all run ..................
But, it wasn't necessary.
When the kids travel they use their French ID or their UK passport depending on where they are going.
OH and I are both English. Both our kids were born here. They each have a UK birth certificate and passport. They have French 'acte de naissance'. Been all through the French school system here - and out the other side.
When we took our son to the Mairie at 16 to get his carte d'identite we filled in a form. The Mairie got his acte de naissance from the Prefecture, did their bit of rubber stamping etc. We produced an EDF bill to prove our residency here. He had his fingerprints taken, signed the form. Two weeks lates his French ID arrived.
Two years later we took our daughter to the same Mairie at 16 to get her carte d'identite. Did all the above. Two weeks later the Mairie said the Prefecture wanted us to confirm if our daughter was French. Yes, we said. OK, they said.
Back came a list of things to provide for an interview at the Tribunal de Petite Instance. We needed our birth certificates, her birth certificate. Our marriage certificate. Our passports. An EDF bill. Five years of 'certificate de scolarite' for our daughter to prove residency here for five years. Photo ID for our daughter had to be her UK passport because she had nothing else. All taken, with us and her, to the Tribunal. A chap looked at everything, looked at us, looked at her and asked her if she wanted to be French. A bit of rubber stamping and we walked out with a piece of paper declaring her French which we took to the Mairie and she got her carte d'identite.
At one point we thought the chap might keep her UK passport as he handled it and then opened a drawer. But, we had a plan: OH would hold him down, I would grab the passport and we'd all run ..................
But, it wasn't necessary.
When the kids travel they use their French ID or their UK passport depending on where they are going.
The countries in this list recognise dual citizenship, and France is amongst them, so there will be no confiscation of British passports! Spain doesn't unfortunately, except in the case of South Americans, but as the UK does then I guess when I become eligible for Spanish citizenship I can just wrestle the official to the ground and tear my UK passport from his hands! Or surrender it and reapply for my 'lost' passport.... https://www.henleyglobal.com/dual-citizenship/
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to GillianF's post!I do think that half the time our fonctionnaires make it up as they go along! For example: When we first arrived, we trolled along one afternoon to our local office to join the French health system; we showed our passports, proof of residence and our (then) E121 from the UK, gave details of our bank accounts, and walked away 15 minutes later, duly admitted.
Friends in other departments have been asked for birth certificates (sometimes legally translated and sometimes their parents' birth certificates as well) and a whole raft of other bits of paper. The Ariège, it seems, has a policy of 'keep it simple'. Quite bizarre!