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water quality
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pete



Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 1109
Location: Near Sancerre, Loire Valley

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:59 am    Post subject: water quality Reply with quote

we have great problems this year with green water and the balance of chemicals, we have only ever used strips to test the water after the initial clean when we take a sample to the local pool shop for analysis, she sells us the appropriate chemicals and then, hey presto all is well.

this year we cant get the pool clean, I am off now to get the water analised but I would like to buy my own digital tester, does anyone have any recommendations ?

I suppose they still need tablets for each test ?

How much are good ones ?

I read once, but cant find the thread about systems that work automatically releasing the chemicals as needed ? are they really expensive ?

At the moment the water is cloudy blue so Im pretty sure its just a chemical imbalance, the water was changed last year, and we have changed the sand in the filter last week,

many thanks for any advice
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Zorba



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 200
Location: Agios Dimitrianos Paphos Cyprus

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete I am reluctant to give you any advice as in the past there seem to be a number of contributors who are just waiting to say I am totally wrong.

Anyway in an effort to help while you wait for other contributors to disagree with me. Very Happy

Generally if you are letting strangers use your pool and charging them for it, you should know a lot more about pool maintenance than you do. I would suggest you spend your money on a CPO or similar learning course. You could be prosecuted for negligence if someone gets seriously ill.

While you think on that, pool strips are notoriously inaccurate, sometimes dangerously so. A good digital meter would be of help but simple testing with "phenol Red" and OTO will give you a fairly accurate PH and total chlorine. However these two tests won't tell you cyanuric acid (stabilizer), total alkalinity or free chlorine.

In an ideal world you would take your water to a lab not a pool shop for analysis. The labs that do blood work normally offer this service for a price.

I bet you want a quick fix answer while you get your guests happy?
My best guess is that you have an algae bloom this year and honestly this can happen to any pool when they get warm. Our 2 pools are 31 & 32C at the moment and although the water balance is correct and the chemical dosing is done with tri Chlor or Cal hypo granules, algae can creep up on you within a few hours. Getting the chemical balance right simply won't remove the algae.

I use a french made product "HTH Blackal Shock" as an algae preventative once the water gets over 28C. The algicide is strong and very concentrated so you need to get the mix right for your size pool. One application and run your pool pump/filtration system constantly for 2 or 3 days(48/72 hrs) - vac and back-wash and hey presto water looking normal.

A final word about pool shops "the good, the bad and the ugly". The staff at the bad and the ugly ones have little or no knowledge other than what the reps tell them. They sell the products that make the most money for the shop, not the best products for your requirements.

You, Pete need to know what you are doing, you can't rely on a pool shop. Alternatively get a professional pool man in. If you are just trying to maintain a pool by trial and error and di-chlor tabs sooner or later a guest is going to get sick and sue you.


Shocked
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pete



Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 1109
Location: Near Sancerre, Loire Valley

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We do comply with French regs and at the moment I do test with the tablets but only to a colour chart and with our weather this year they are not accurate enough, hence the need to go to our pool shop which analyses all the required levels.

I want to buy a good meter so I don't have to travel to the shop all he time.
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Zorba



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 200
Location: Agios Dimitrianos Paphos Cyprus

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pete wrote:
We do comply with French regs and at the moment I do test with the tablets but only to a colour chart and with our weather this year they are not accurate enough, hence the need to go to our pool shop which analyses all the required levels.

I want to buy a good meter so I don't have to travel to the shop all he time.


"Many thanks for any advice" you posted. I hope you and your new meter are very happy. Very Happy
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pete



Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 1109
Location: Near Sancerre, Loire Valley

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zorba, I am sorry if I have upset you by not saying thanks, I have now read your post twice but cant find anything about different meters, but thanks anyway
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Zorba



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 200
Location: Agios Dimitrianos Paphos Cyprus

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not upset just surprised.

You are convinced that a ph inbalance or low chlorine is your problem and that somehow having a fancy meter will fix it. Cheap meters are no good and I have tried a few. You are going to have to spend a lot on a calibrated meter. I have looked into it a few times and even bought a couple of meters, which were returned to supplier as dangerously inaccurate. OTO and phenol red test vials are far more accurate. You can also get chemical tests for free chlorine, TA and cyanuric acid.

I am 95% certain that algae bloom is your problem and that may or may not have been caused by PH or low chlorine. A new meter will not get rid of that algae, nor will restoring PH levels. Algae blooms can be very resistant to chlorine during very hot weather.

I have suggested an excellent french algicide that will sort out the cloudy blue/green water. Honestly I am not upset if you don't take the advice. Very Happy However with algae the longer you leave it the worse the water and damage to the pool surface/liner. I am also surprised that EU regs on pool water testing can be so different in France to the EU regs in Cyprus.
Here your pool would be closed down if it were the colour you claim.

Can't help any more. Good luck Very Happy
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Bassman



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 720
Location: Charente Maritime

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I normally get algae problems when the pool is not used much, im guessing its because the water circulates better when in use. I admit i only use strips and apart from the odd problem with algae my water quality is really good. I also sealed the joint between the pool & margelle with pool mastic a couple of years back and that seemed to help.
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teapot



Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 762
Location: Loire valley

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zorba wrote:
I am not upset just surprised.

OTO and phenol red test vials are far more accurate. You can also get chemical tests for free chlorine, TA and cyanuric acid.

I am 95% certain that algae bloom is your problem and that may or may not have been caused by PH or low chlorine. A new meter will not get rid of that algae, nor will restoring PH levels.


Phenol red maybe ok but OTO isn't much help at all as it only measure total chlorine and not free available chlorine.

No a new meter won't get rid of the algae BUT it will indicate accurately what the problem is rather than guessing.
However rather than disagree Zorba your first post covered a few good points.

HTH is German from Brenntag the chemical giant and it's just a copper algaecide same as anyone elses copper algaecide.
Problems can occur using copper based products if the pH is not tightly controlled to prevent staining and green hair in blonde swimmers. Don't use it if the pool is a tiled or plaster finish.
Better to sort out the real issues before going down that route.

Pete, sent you a PM
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teapot



Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 762
Location: Loire valley

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bassman wrote:
I normally get algae problems when the pool is not used much, im guessing its because the water circulates better when in use. I admit i only use strips and apart from the odd problem with algae my water quality is really good. I also sealed the joint between the pool & margelle with pool mastic a couple of years back and that seemed to help.

That photo of the two kids swimming shows your water quality isn't really good, sorry.
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Bassman



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 720
Location: Charente Maritime

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teapot wrote:
Bassman wrote:
I normally get algae problems when the pool is not used much, im guessing its because the water circulates better when in use. I admit i only use strips and apart from the odd problem with algae my water quality is really good. I also sealed the joint between the pool & margelle with pool mastic a couple of years back and that seemed to help.

That photo of the two kids swimming shows your water quality isn't really good, sorry.

The cameras is not, but i stand by what i said no apology necessary.
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CarolineH



Joined: 29 Sep 2011
Posts: 888
Location: Nr Dinan, Brittany, France

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pete wrote:
We do comply with French regs


French regulations require any pool that is available to public use (classed as outside your immediate family and friends) to be declared to the ARS (Agence Régionale de Santé) who will send someone to analyze your water quality every month that the pool is open. This gives you a thorough laboratory report of the water, together with suggestions on how to fix any problems.

I have a Lovibond Photometer which analyses Chlorine and Free Chlorine, Ph and Cyanuric Acid, costs around 700€
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bornintheuk



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 421
Location: Southern Charente

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CarolineH wrote:
pete wrote:
We do comply with French regs


French regulations require any pool that is available to public use (classed as outside your immediate family and friends) to be declared to the ARS (Agence Régionale de Santé) who will send someone to analyze your water quality every month that the pool is open. This gives you a thorough laboratory report of the water, together with suggestions on how to fix any problems.

And how many people do you think do that ? Certainly not some on LMH as I have seen "salt water pool" as an advertising advantage used on some sites, which are not allowed by the French regs for multi-use pools.
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CarolineH



Joined: 29 Sep 2011
Posts: 888
Location: Nr Dinan, Brittany, France

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bornintheuk wrote:

And how many people do you think do that ?


I am very aware that we are in a minority. I was just pointing out what the French regs were and that they can help you if you have problems with your water quality. I found them very helpful when I first started my pool, they came to visit and gave me lots of pointers to maintaining a high water quality. I have a monthly "attestation" to display to my guests.
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Zorba



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 200
Location: Agios Dimitrianos Paphos Cyprus

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teapot wrote:

HTH is German from Brenntag the chemical giant and it's just a copper algaecide same as anyone elses copper algaecide.


Maybe yours is, but I have just bought another 3 litre can today of HTH total Blackshock . The stuff is made in Ambrose France.
There is more to it than just copper sulplate. Their telephone number is 0247234300. I am sure they would welcome you putting them straight.


Last edited by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zorba



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 200
Location: Agios Dimitrianos Paphos Cyprus

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CarolineH wrote:
pete wrote:
We do comply with French regs


French regulations require any pool that is available to public use (classed as outside your immediate family and friends) to be declared to the ARS (Agence Régionale de Santé) who will send someone to analyze your water quality every month that the pool is open. This gives you a thorough laboratory report of the water, together with suggestions on how to fix any problems.

I have a Lovibond Photometer which analyses Chlorine and Free Chlorine, Ph and Cyanuric Acid, costs around 700€


Cyprus regs are similar but hotels should get and keep lab reports every week. I should think at €700 that meter performs very well. I would love one but with only 2 pools can't justify that amount on a single bit of kit. Knowing my luck it would get knocked into the pool on day one. Very Happy
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