Moral dilemma, Your thoughts please

[david a]

Hello guys

I have a moral dilemma which has been playing on my mind a bit and i'm in two minds as to what to do.

Let me explain. I have been advertising with a company on a pay yearly basis and had recieved four or five bookings so was happy with the service, However i recieved an email from the company saying that at the end of the year they would be charging 23% of every booking due to growing advertising cost and i would not be paid anything until four weeks before the due holiday date.

To put it politly this did not sit well with me and after a couple of beers one night did a domain name search for their web site name using (.co.uk) as oppose to (.com) and to my amazment it was available so while chuckling to myself i brought it for two quid, this name redirects you to another name finishing (.com) so i also brought the (.co.uk) of that for two quid.

I now think that if i redirct these names to my website he will soon find out and may not be to pleased or is it a case of he should of brought it if he wanted it.

Would like to know your views

Yours

Slippery Dave

[Partridge]

Hi Dave

As already stated, I am clueless about websites but from a moral point of view I guess it's the same as copyright ie you have to protect yourself. So, if they didn't bother to do their own research and buy it then I don't think I would feel guilty. I'm presuming if it is a good idea then eventually someone will buy it anyway, so it might as well be you. Also, it was for sale, so you haven't done anything wrong in my book, although, like you, I would probably feel guilty. So all in all it proves you're really a nice bloke trying to look out for his own interests.

[petehols]

Hi David

It might be worthless to you. If the company that currently owns the domain name similar to the ones you registered all they would have to do is prove that you registered it either to cause them harm or to gain traffic from their domain name. If they can prove this then a letter to the registrars will basically mean that they will be able to take the name off of you. Or you will be told to transfer the name over to them at your cost. One bit of advice I would give you is that I would not tr and sell them the name and for a few months at least I would not re-direct the name to anywhere else. That way you can act dumb and ay that you registered the name because you thought it was a good name and you haven't as yet put together a website for it, but you have plans for them.

Whatever you do, do not post the name on any open forum whatsoever that is just sure signs of letting this company know that you have the domains and the resons you registered them.

Hope this helps you a bit.

Pete

[david a]

Hi

Thanks for the advice, i probable knew it was morally wrong but didn't realise it is legally wrong. I think i will just sit on them and if they asked they can have them. i didn't do it for profit but must admit i thought it might help my clickthrough rate, which i must admit isn't great so the website works better as a referral, i guess i will have to keep trying for more clickthroughs the hard way.

cheers

David

[petehols]

Hi David

Didn't mean to scare you. Technically it is not legally wrong what you have done so far there is no legal issue with yet. It will only become an issue if you use those domain names to try and get traffic from their name or you try to sell the domain name to them. If they ask to buy the domain name from you buy finding you own the domain through the whois database that is completely different.

The domain names that you have registered are they related to your own website? or are they like a general letting website domain?

Pete

[david a]

Hello Pete

I would say that it is related to my site, so i don't think that would be a problem.

Excuse my nievety (and spelling) but what is the problem with offering it for sale. (not that i would)

cheers

David

[petehols]

Hi David

There is nothing wrong with offering it for sale as long as you dont offer it to the company that has the similar name.

The reason I asked if the domain was related to your site is there is nothing stopping you creating a website on it and putting information on the site and using it as an information portal. You can then put banner ads and links on the site back to yours. That way the people who visit the site either from the search engines or a wrongly typed address would find your site as well it would also give you another link back to your site.

That way if the occasion arises where they do think that you were trying to get thier traffic you have a valid reason why you registered the domain name.

Hope this helps and If I can help any further let me know.

Regards

Pete

[Big Sis..]

Hi David,

When you said this company is now going to charge you 23%,what was it charging you before[seems a bit steep] If it has changed its contract with you and your not happy have you thought of looking elsewhere.

Is this the only site you advertise with, another one is always handy so you could compare,bookings service etc.
Have you considered dealing with the bookings/advertising yourself and saving the commission.

Im sure you would be more than capable of doing this.

[Alan Knighting]

What? Nearly one quarter of your rental income for the pleasure of an entry on a rental web site?

I know little about charging levels but it seems to me that 23% is more like what a management company would charge rather than what a rental web site can get away with.

Without all the services a management company offers it seems to be a ludicrously high figure to me.

Fluffy

[david a]

Hi,


Thanks guys top advice

We have been dealing with bookings and all the things that go with and have had no mishaps (touch wood) so far.

We oringinally paid £150 for a years advertising so with the percentage of 23% this will now be much higher. To be honest this we simply can't stay with this company, its just when you have the typing skills of a fish, filling in all the info and making it sound interesting seems to take ages.

Regards

David

[Mountain Goat]

David hello

Why not just copy/paste the text you've got?

Goat

[david a]

Hi Mountaingoat

Good call Doh!

[Mountain Goat]

david a

If the original page still remains hanging in there on the web, you might edit the new stuff just a bit to avoid duplicate text - frowned on, if not worse, by Google et al I understand.

MG

[A-two]

I beg to disagree in part with petehols advice as it relates to any domain name purchased under ICANN regulations, and last time I looked, Nominet was a member of ICANN's ccTLD constituency, although there may be legal precedents related to .co.uk about which I am unaware that could override what I am about to say.

There is absolutely nothing illegal or morally wrong about what you have done. Yes, if they wanted it, they should have bought it, but they did not. Perfectly respectable Domain Name Resellers do the same thing every day of the week and raise families on the proceeds. You did not buy the domain in bath faith. You bought it because it was available and you got there first, regardless of what motivated you to check. You are not now using it to try and pass your website off as the other website, neither are you claiming to be them, nor have you contacted them to ask them if they would like to buy it from you for a 5 figure sum. Rather you are pointing it to a website about your own property. In short, there is no bad faith registration in my view.

Having said that, if the other person has a registered trademark in the name you have just purchased, (I doubt it if they don't even have a grip on defensive registrations), then they may be able to shut your site down if you are trading in a similar business area, which it seems that you are. In that case, they could send you a cease and desist letter, which if ignored, would then force them to go to WIPO for a UDRP hearing to settle the matter (read the small print in your domain registration agreement at the registrar where you purchased the domain). WIPO can force you to turn it over to them at cost and if you refuse, the Registrar will do it anyway. The filing fee for a UDRP procedure at WIPO is around $1,000. If the other person does not own the trademark, and the domain is a fairly common combination of holiday - vacation - rental related words - they would be fools to spend $1,000 filing a claim for it, since you could defend yourself at minimal cost and most likely win.

In conclusion, there is absolutely no reason why you can't a) use it for your own purposes and b) not care if they find out about it. If you don't use it, that may be construed as bad faith registration, as they could then argue the only reason you bought it was to stop them using it, but even that is very thin ice. You could have bought it for a purpose, then changed your mind, or you could still be working out what you intend to do with. If, ultimately, you decide it's no use to you, then you may decide to advertise it for sale on the open market through a reseller site like Godaddy or Afternic, but registration transfers are blocked for the first 60 days after purchase, I guess that would have to wait.

I have no sympathy for these listing site owners, whoever they may be, and they don't seem very bright either, not only having missed the defensive registrations to protect both themselves and their clients, but then driving away a perfectly happy client by attempting to charge exhorbitant and unwarranted fees. You're well rid of them, if only because they are not likely to be around very long anyway with that business model and attitude.

Disclaimer: IANAL (I am not a lawyer) and this is not legal advice.

[Giddy Goat]

david a If the original page still remains hanging in there on the web, you might edit the new stuff just a bit to avoid duplicate text - frowned on, if not worse, by Google et al I understand. MG

The other problem Goatie, is that each listing site has its own way of arranging things, and different limits under their headings as to the number of characters and spaces allowed. So it's almost as quick, if not quicker, to start again from scratch.

Used to enjoy this, but now I'm not so sure...