Legit rental expenses - and how to extract receipts?

[Mountain Goat]

I'm not sure what happens in other countries, but the Swiss authorities haven't the slightest interest in taxing rental income directly, and therefore income/expenses on our property go to UK tax extractors (we're resident in the UK).

Had a meeting with our boringly straight accountant (being reasonably devious I would prefer a dodgy financial adviser) to discuss relevant expenses against rental income.

He was uneasy about a load of genuine expenses i,e. zapping out to sort out emergencies (airfare, meals, car-running costs) - look, Goat - are these really 100% wholly and exclusively....do you really have to eat in this lakeside restaurant......etc. but the real sticking point was cleaning and laundry costs.

Putting it succinctly neither cleaners not launderers (en suisse) want to give receipts - all cash in hand - presumably unhappy about local work regs. and, I assume, tax.

Accountant's attitude is tough - we'll stick 'em in your accounts, Goat, but if there's an IR inspection you're on your own.

I don't want to fake them, but it's a heavy expense, and seems nuts that I can't claim.

Anyone got a solution?

Goat

[Normandy Cow]

Sorry goat, but I think the only answer to that one is to use a cleaner/launderer who is not working "on the black"

We paid our previous cleaner cash in hand, and we never put it through the books, we just accepted that as we were paying a lower rate for her services then that made up for what we would have been able to offset against tax. Now, we have a cleaner through an agency and so it is all above board and we pay her social charges. In return, I am able to put the invoices through the books and claim.

It's all swings and roundabouts isn't it? I note that you say that you have claimed for airfares and meals etc for when you have had to go out to sort out problems. In the 3 years I have been renting my place I have not once claimed even the ferry fare for any trips that I have made out there, not even for last autumn when I went to project manage the installation of a new kitchen.

It never occurred to me that I could do so, and I'd be interested to hear other people's views on this. Do you all claim for "maintenance" trips to your rental properties? If so, then I am obviously missing a trick!

[Mountain Goat]

CatherineS

I guess you're right re 'working on the black'. Our problem is that using an agency (miles away) it would be impossible to cover the seriously unsocial hours that the cleaners work to turn the place around when we've got tight changeovers. Official Swiss working hours are set in stone: 0800-1200, 2 hour lunchbreak, 1400-1700. It topped up my French slang vocab. when I once asked a local electrician to give us 30mins of his mid-day break (paid), and the result has been much admired.

Anothe prob. with one of our cleaners is she brings her 8yr-old daughter - lovely kid, but she chews gum. When she leaves it's hunt-where-she's-hidden-the-used-gum throughout the whole house (usually under the dining-room table). Mother is oblivious to it and just beams with kids-will-be-kids sort of attitude. I've solved it partially by plugging her into CBBC when I can - seems to distract her.

I'm also fascinated by different working practices - at the moment we've got 7 Portuguese roofers who motor through the day with short breaks for Diet Coke and Iced Tea (bottled) - not the slightest interest in coffee or tea - in fact, baffled by the concept during working hours. It's incredibly hot up there, but even so, imagine in the UK....

Re expenses I think the advice to us is add up total expenses for the year in running the place (flights, meals, rail, car, carparking plus all the house running expenses, utilities, repairs, service contracts plus all advertising, web costs, phone costs etc.) - every single bean; proportion this private use / rental use and slam it in.

I wouldn't hesitate to put our travel costs in. In fact I'm putting together the total expenses of a very pleasant 5 days in Tuscany sorting out post-installation problems on a flash new Italian kitchen - it's not my fault it was a magical hotel, by the sea, superb restaurants etc. and the kitchen manufacturer was very hospitable. It was tough, unselfish work, but someone had to do it.

I don't think I misunderstood our accountant.

Goat

[Vally]

I think you should be able to claim for all that you are discussing, but I also reckon if you ahe a straight accountant, who is known by the IR and that your income vexpenses is not totally top heavy, you would not fall under the IR's eye and even if you do if the expeses are legit ( keep diary notes on the times you had to go out to sort problems what they were etc) you can put your case .

[Mountain Goat]

Vally
That's a really good point. Maybe there's a serious advantage in having a straight accountant, trusted by the IR etc.?

Goat

[Giddy Goat]

You're absolutely right about travel expenses MG - and we only discovered this last week - meanwhile had chucked the print-outs and deleted all relevant emails (booking confirmations) for flights to and from France, and can't recover them - though I'm thinking of calling Ryanair to see if there's any way from their end, to trace our flights retrospectively. In the meantime, we did take a view, put down a figure, and are crossing our fin/hooves.

Here is the relevant link, which I found on LMH recently. Brilliant!
http://www.direct.gov.uk/MoneyTaxAndBen ... chk=GJhMCJ

[Mountain Goat]

GG
That link is really useful - great.

One cool para.:

Expenses and allowances - what counts?
You can deduct the same expenses and allowances from overseas property letting income as from UK property letting income, including travel costs. (The expenses must be solely for running your property letting business.)

I don't suppose Ryanair accept credit cards, but if they do, then you can just shove in the annotated statements. Also most c/card companies (beware of charges) have to send you copies of all transactions.

Alternatively a search through your back emails for tics? Yet another reason for GMail?

MG

[Giddy Goat]

Thanks MG - I had found that para then lost it again, so was just trawling through for the umpteenth time to do a cut and paste to add here, but you've spared me - my eyes were going round in circles!!

We use Mac mail, and unfortunately I trashed all the confirmatory emails from Ryanair - are you saying there is still a clever way of recovering them? Ryanair do accept credit cards but charge more than for Switch. If all else fails, yes, I guess our credit card/Switch records might suffice.

[Mountain Goat]

GG

Sorry, just seen you'd deleted them. Not sure about MacMail. Is it web-based or do you download to your machine? If it's web-based then maybe a trash box hunt? If machine-based, you would have to ask a Mac guru. Must be worth a call to Ryanair.

It's interesting how people handle their e-mail, I've got a touch over 4,800 in mine (I will get around to it at the weekend) and Mrs G is in agony if she's got more than 6.

MG

[Giddy Goat]

I'm embarrassed to say, I don't know. Enid?

I'll ask Mr GG when he comes home.

Double take - 4,800??!!

[Mountain Goat]

GG

4753 to be precise. I'm a bit slow with newspapers as well, and getting through July 2005 at the moment. Mrs G has allocated a special newspaper room where I can wallow.

Re email: Can you access your email anywhere? Do you download it to your machine (i.e. browse off-line)?

Also, although you may have deleted your incoming mail, you might not have deleted your outgoing mail. Just a thought.

Guru call.

MG

[Giddy Goat]

Mrs G has allocated a special newspaper room where I can wallow.MG

Have you considered the fire hazards of this, Goatie? Not to mention all that printers ink on you lovely coat!

Re emails - this is where I show my thtupidity yet again; I don't know! When I occasionally use an internet cafe, I'm on a PC, so to access MacMail I first have to go onto Mac.com, then into Macmail, then type in a password, much as one does with, eg, Hotmail. At home, Macmail is there on the dock as soon as I switch the computer on, and I just click and away I go. Am I making sense and if so are you any more enlightened?

Ryanair bookings are done through their booking system and not via email, so there is no record in our sent messages of our transactions with them.

Am I sending the rest of you nice people to sleep? Sorreee! I know this is off topic, but maybe we've said all there is to be said on it? Tax I mean.

[Big Sis..]

Off topic Eh Gascony

you know thats not allowed

all us Menopausel women will take umbridge.[if we knew where it was, is that were Emmerdales made ]

[Giddy Goat]

I know this is off topic, but maybe we've said all there is to be said on it? Tax I mean.

But if that's not the case Ros, let's carry on posting, as it's a particularly topical topic at the mo.

[Normandy Cow]

umbridge.[if we knew where it was, is that were Emmerdales made ]

Aren't you thinking about the Archers? (Not that I have time to listen to them )