Rental Contracts

[Rocket Rab]

Hi folks,

Having just finished our first season, I am keen to make a few adjustments in preparation for next year..... I'd love to pick your brains, so here goes:

This year I printed out my rental contract, signed it and sent it off with request that it be countersigned and returned to me. No problems with that, but I would like to make things simpler.

Question: Do many of you send your contract by email? In which case you presumably ask guests to print it out, sign it and return to you by snail mail? Your signature on the contract would be missing, in this case?

Question: Are these contracts actually worth the paper they are written on?

- As a document that sets out the obligations on both sides and gives a reassuring framework to the overall transaction, I do not dispute their value in any way. But could such a contract actually be enforced? Given my contracts are usually between a party in France (us) and a party in the UK (guests), any dispute would presumably be brought before a French court (I used to state this on the contract...but don't bother any more). The original contract should also be issued in French - non? - with a translation? That is also what I started out doing, but I soon abandoned that idea and finished up just sending out the English version. To cut a long story short, I am sceptical about the legal value of these documents.... can anyone reassure me?

[Fraise]

[quote="Jenny"]Hi folks,

Having just finished our first season, I am keen to make a few adjustments in preparation for next year..... I'd love to pick your brains, so here goes:

This year I printed out my rental contract, signed it and sent it off with request that it be countersigned and returned to me. No problems with that, but I would like to make things simpler.

Question: Do many of you send your contract by email? In which case you presumably ask guests to print it out, sign it and return to you by snail mail? Your signature on the contract would be missing, in this case?


I just ask them to print off the booking form, fill it in ,sign it,then send it to me snail mail. I used to print one out and send it to them but it just seemed a step too far.This system works fine.

Question: Are these contracts actually worth the paper they are written on?

- Probably not

[A-two]

Question: Are these contracts actually worth the paper they are written on?

Check with your attorney.

[Alan Knighting]

Jenny,

The subject of Tenancy Agreements is a complicated one but certain basic things can be said.

In respect of the letting of properties in France the tenancy falls under the jurisdiction of the French courts and the agreements must be written in French.

An exception is when the property is let for temporary private use in which case the tenancy can be made subject to the jurisdiction of the courts of English & Wales and can be written in English so long as both parties to the agreement are natural persons (neither being a company) and both parties are domiciled in England or Wales. Even then, if the dispute is a matter of your tenant being unwilling to vacate the property at the end of the tenancy it remains for the French courts to sort out.

If your agreement falls within that exception it is good evidence in the courts of England & Wales so long as it is signed by the person against whom you are taking proceedings, and vice versa.

If you wish to take this any further I agree with Joanna, consult your lawyer making sure he is familiar with both legal regimes.

Fluffy

[Rocket Rab]

Alan,

Thank you - I was hoping that post would catch your eye...

It basically confirms what I (and Fraise, too) suspected all along: the 'contract' I am sending out appears to provide very little, if anything at all, in terms of valid legal protection.

As my husband and I are resident in France and operate the business as a company, the contract should be in French, for a start.

Well, I will probably just 'rub along' for the time being, my thinking being that I would prefer to settle any disputes on an amicable basis if possible...

Thanks also to Fraise and Joanna.

[Alan Knighting]

Jenny,

You're in the same position as me - domiciled in France.

Nevertheless I think your contracts could still of value, for two reasons.

Firstly, they may slightly concentrate the minds of your guests.

Secondly, an official translation into French (expensive) could still be of evidential value in a French court although French law would prevail.

I wouldn’t abandon your contracts altogether.

Fluffy

[Rocket Rab]

...it is good evidence in the courts of England & Wales so long as it is signed by the person against whom you are taking proceedings, and vice versa.

Alan,

I think this answers another of my concerns - namely, that a contract which has been emailed to guests for signature, but does not bear rental owner's signature, would lack legal validity....

(I suppose you can always sign when returned by guest. But that leaves your guest without a duly signed copy, which cannot be right.. so the only legally effective option would appear to be snail mail.)

Complicated, isn't it?

[Mountain Goat]

...but does not bear rental owner's signature...

Maybe scan one's signature into a graphic (or the whole document) and send via attached pdf file? Better than nothing?

MG

[Rocket Rab]

Good idea, MG. As you say, better than nothing.

You must face a similar problem being domiciled en Suisse??

[Hells Bells]

Interesting points. Currently my bookings fill in all of their details online, and click to accept the terms and conditions of rental. I have full details of the guests, but no physical signature
on the contract. Comments appreciated.

[Rocket Rab]

Helen,

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you need to have signatures (of both parties) on any agreement to confer legal validity.

I cannot imagine that a 'click' would be an acceptable replacement. Again, I may be wrong...
With reference to MG's suggestion (scan your signature into your document), I am not even sure that would be a legally acceptable solution.

Presumably your contracts are in English, and would be governed by UK law (as you are, I think, domiciled in the UK?)

[la vache!]

Jenny I'm sure you are right. On the French contract I have (which I lifted from the G de F site) you produce 2 copies, the owner signs both, then sends then off to the client to sign, they retain one copy and send the other back to the owner. I don't enforce this with the UK clients, I just have their signature, so definitely not worth the paper written on but does save on postage costs

[Mountain Goat]

How about scanning signatures in and then mailing the originals?

You must face a similar problem being domiciled en Suisse??

Jenny, not quite, as we're not domiciled. In general, sober(?), god-fearing home-owners do seem to have very firm backing from the local gendarmerie. Minor infringements (shopping your neighbour in for grass-mowing on a Sunday for example) are dealt with promptly and efficiently by the local fuzz (as we've found out), and any misbehaviour by visitors can result in the local cooler being an unplanned part of their itinerary. Habeas corpus doesn't exist in the EEC sense.

MG

[Rocket Rab]

On the French contract I have (which I lifted from the G de F site) you produce 2 copies, the owner signs both, then sends then off to the client to sign, they retain one copy and send the other back to the owner

Hi Susan. Interesting, thanks - I started off sending out 2 copies, signing them both, sending to client, etc. etc. Worse, I sent out FOUR docs, 2 originals in French for signing, plus 2 English translations for info. Do you provide English translations, or are your clients happy to sign something which (in most cases) I suppose they do not understand?

It really is an administrative nightmare, which is why I am keen to simplify (whilst hopefully retaining legal clout, though I am beginning to think it cannot be done )

[Rocket Rab]

Minor infringements (shopping your neighbour in for grass-mowing on a Sunday for example)

Sorry, off-topic aside to MG:
Ahh, that made me chuckle!!! Have you had the note-pushed-under-door scenario to let you know you have infringed local customs ? I remember one to me in my student days, informing me I had left washing powder crumbs around the apartment block's shared machine in the basement ... please leave as you would wish to find, etc. etc Have learnt a lot, sometimes the hard way, since then...