Diespute over Property Name - Advice Please

[Yvain]

We purchased a property in the Charente Maritime 2 years ago. It's the main house in the village (a big manor house or debatably a chateau) and we decided to name it after a famous (allegedly) French writer who was born and brought up in the house and whom the village square on which the house sits is named after.

A couple of months ago we were contacted by descendants of this writer telling us that we had no right to name the property after their relative and asking us to change it. They seemed to be under the impression that we were gaining commercially from the name and we explained why we had named the property after their relative. We offered to change it more specifically after the Place (square) rather than directly after the writer but they have said this is unacceptable.

We are reluctant to significantly change the name, firstly because I have an aversion to bowing to pressure in circumstances like these but mainly because all our marketing literature, website etc are in the existing name.

They have now written to say that they will commence legal action against us if we don't change the name to something completely different and un-related. I am pretty sure that in the UK they wouldn't have a leg to stand on legally, particularly if we shortened the name or named it after the square rather than the individual. However, we don't know what the legal position is in France. Does anyone have any experience of such issues or iof not know any French English speaking lawyer who could advise us?

Many thanks

[Topcat]

Hi! I'm not a lawyer, but surely if the square that the house sits on also bears the name of your house then they haven't got a leg to stand on. Would you be able to simply remove references to this writer from your literature?

Perhaps they're going to sue the town hall as well for using their father's name!

This sounds a bit like Posh and Becks trying to sue Peterborough football club because their initials are also P.O.S.H (can't think what it stands for!).

Regards,
Pauline

PS By the way your link dosn't work for me.

[Yvain]

Pauline, my feelings exactly. However, I don't want to incur legal costs in proving it!

Link should work now. Don't know why I was so coy with the name - it's Chateau Pierre Henri Simon (Chateau Simon for short).

Huw

www.chateausimon.com

[Rocket Rab]

Yvain,

Let me stress that I do not have a legal background either, but I think you might be on shaky ground.

The only person who could clarify your situation with any certainty would be, I believe, a trademark attorney.

I think I am right in saying that in France you can register your own name, or the name of a third party, as a trademark subject to certain requirements - which are complex and would require clarification with a properly qualified specialist.

Requirements include, for example, availability of the name (i.e. no one has already registered it before you); it must not cause prejudice to copyright - a problem, in your case? - and, I believe, it could be contested if it is the name of a famous person, which you say it is, possibly.

I used to work in a patent and trademark office, but please take all this with a large pinch of salt. As I say, I am not properly qualified and may well be absolutely wrong! As you have used the name on printed literature, you should seek proper clarification. Good luck.

PS: this link looks interesting http://www.legalbiznext.com/droit/L-usa ... onymique-a (in French, sorry, but it might give you a useful contact...)

[Fraise]

Pauline, my feelings exactly. However, I don't want to incur legal costs in proving it!

Link should work now. Don't know why I was so coy with the name - it's Chateau Pierre Henri Simon (Chateau Simon for short).

Huw

www.chateausimon.com

Ouch !! I know you, the chateau and the locals !! Eeek,what do the actual locals say? They can be a moody bunch and if they are against it you are sunk and I would bite the bullet and change the name- maybe only a bit tho, maybe to the shortened version? Chateau Simon ? Don't think you want the legal battle- altho we won ours via CA it was nearly 2 years before we saw any money and we still haven't had all of it, these legal things take SO long ! You would have to shell out cartloads and the only real winners would be the lawyers - sorry !! It's a great house though

[Bob T]

Strange that in your post you say:
"They seemed to be under the impression that we were gaining commercially from the name"
But then you go on to say:
"because all our marketing literature, website etc are in the existing name."
So the question would be are you gaining commercially or not?

[Normandy Cow]

In my humble opinion, I think that the name "Chateau Pierre Henri Simon" is quite a mouthful, and that changing to "Chateau Simon" would actually be a POSITIVE step.

(Please - "No offence", as my 9-year-old daughter says to me at least 5 times a day each time she criticises everything I do and everything I say).

[A-two]

In my humble opinion, I think that the name "Chateau Pierre Henri Simon" is quite a mouthful,

I agree, Chateau Simon is much better. I'm not sure about the legal situation, but if precedent is anything to go by, I believe that every Tom Dick and Harry can make souvenirs in Princess Diana's name and there's nothing anyone can do about it. At the same time, I can understand the family's concern. For all they know you are running a gin palace and bordello there in the name of their beloved relative. Had you approached them in advance, they may have taken a different view, but exploiting their relative's name for your own commercial gain without consulting them is not going to go down well. It will now be harder to argue that Chateau Simon is not related to their relative, so you may lose that one as well.

If you are really in love with the name, then I would consider offering them some money to License the rights to use the name. If you're not willing to do that, then I wouldn't fight it, rather I would pick another name altogether that says more about you than anyone else.

[Jimbo]

Yvain wrote:

We are reluctant to significantly change the name, firstly because I have an aversion to bowing to pressure ...

Joanna wrote:

I would consider offering them some money to License the rights to use the name.

Many people that we've contacted over the years about using our copyright pictures without permission or fee seem to have the same aversion to 'bowing to pressure'. Only when we point out that they are stealing from us and gaining commercial advantage and that unless they desist immediately or pay to licence the image, then legal action will swiftly follow, do they start to understand the implications of their actions.

I can't see that your case is any different. You didn't ask permission from the guy's descendants and you are (IMO) gaining commercial advantage from the use of his name. I agree with Joanna, offer to pay the descendants to licence the name. If you'd asked for their permission before you renamed your property, you might have got away without a fee but I think that's unlikely now.

Jim

[paolo]

In my humble opinion, I think that the name "Chateau Pierre Henri Simon" is quite a mouthful, and that changing to "Chateau Simon" would actually be a POSITIVE step.

I agree. I have never heard of this writer and actually such a convoluted name might put me off, it sounds a little institutional. No offence...

[Giddy Goat]

Bit of info on the guy - a translation, but you'll get the drift.

http://tinyurl.com/ygg968

It sounds as if M Simon was a man of letters, but that his literary accomplishments may have been quite specialised, so that his wasn't exactly a household name. Even so, the family is proud of him and their perceptions will be different. To them it's as if he'd been Emile Zola!

It's only natural for us to want to take advantage of any connections in our marketing, so no-one is blaming you, but simply stating that we can understand where the family is coming from. I don't think they're going to be happy, even if the name of the property is changed officially to 'Chateau Simon', and marketed as such - but you could always ask first, as a way of capitulating.

[Rocket Rab]

I agree with your concern for the author's family, GG. I suppose, though, that if it were done officially, as you rightly suggest, i.e. through a trademark attorney, the family in question might touch some sort of fee? Might be balm for their affront!

[Ju]

Have you spoken to the Marie? It would be first step in any dispute of this kind.

[Fraise]

I see you asked the same question on another site and got similar replies ( altho not quite so friendly ).Have you decided on any course of action yet ? From the other site it seems that you can't just name or rename a house like you can in UK- I hadn't realised that and I suspect lots of others hadn't either Good luck with whatever you decide.