Hi,
I have a problem. My rental contract clearly stipulates: "Animals are not allowed".
Some weeks ago a guest lodged with 2 dogs in our apartment for a week. I refuse to return the breakage deposit because of exceeding cleaning after check-out.
Now this guest toke an french lawyer and threaten me to take the case to court.
Have I any chance to win ?
Vasily
French Rental Law ( for short term rentals)
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Re: French Rental Law ( for short term rentals)
By no means am I a French lawyer so I don't know where you stand on this one. My reaction is, if your breakage deposit specifically mentions excess cleaning then your OK otherwise you're not.Vasily wrote:Hi,
I have a problem. My rental contract clearly stipulates: "Animals are not allowed".
Some weeks ago a guest lodged with 2 dogs in our apartment for a week. I refuse to return the breakage deposit because of exceeding cleaning after check-out.
Now this guest toke an french lawyer and threaten me to take the case to court.
Have I any chance to win ?
Vasily
Fluffy
Hi Vasily,
Do you believe they talked to a lawyer, really? Show me a lawyer who is going to tell a tenant they don't have to pay for damage to their landlord's property. I bet you $1 you can't find one. There isn't a rental law in the world that says a landlord cannot charge for damage to his property by a tenant.
If it's not damage, only cleaning, I agree that's different. Cleaning probably has to be stated in the agreement that you may charge extra if it exceeds X. That's why you need to define what X is in the agreement. If the agreement says, "no pets", what is the agreed penalty for a violation? I guess you don't have one yet, or you wouldn't be asking the question. You might want to add one now.
Regardless of whether or not it was all neatly described with penalties for pets and extra cleaning, if the damage and extra cleaning was real (and I believe what you say is true), then my answer to these people would be to send them a firm and polite letter, something like this:
Dear Mr(s) Tenant,
Please find enclosed itemised list of deductions made from the deposit.
1. item: broken, replacement cost $X
2. item: repair at cost, $X
3. item: missing, replacement cost $X
4. Extra Cleaning: as per our agreement, x hours were included, but our cleaners reported XXX hours were needed to restore the house to its prior condition, resulting in a charge of XX hours extra @ the agreed rate of $X per hour.
5. Penalty for bringing animal into the property (if one exists in the agreement).
Total: $XXXXXX
Security Deposit paid: $XXXXXX
Balance due to tenant: $X (...or...) $0 (.....or) -$X
Please be informed that we are forwarding a copy of this account to our lawyer together with photographs of the damage, to put on record our side of the story. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and should you disagree with ours, we would encourage you to seek proper professional advice from your own lawyer.
Please accept our check in full and final settlement. (....or...) However, so far as we are concerned, this is the end of the matter. (....or...) We look forward to receiving your check.
Yours sincerely,
Mr(s) Landlord
_____________________________
I bet you another $1 you will never hear from them again, because they know what they did. They were not blind when they arrived, they were not blind when they left. I'm sorry you had bad luck, but fortunately, these kinds of people are very rare. Most guests are absolutely wonderful, but when you do meet one of these, don't give in, or they will do the same thing next year and the next and the next and one time it might be my place. So, please, if your deductions are truly fair, stand your ground, whether it's a partial refund, no refund or sending another bill on top of the deposit.
Good Luck!
Do you believe they talked to a lawyer, really? Show me a lawyer who is going to tell a tenant they don't have to pay for damage to their landlord's property. I bet you $1 you can't find one. There isn't a rental law in the world that says a landlord cannot charge for damage to his property by a tenant.
If it's not damage, only cleaning, I agree that's different. Cleaning probably has to be stated in the agreement that you may charge extra if it exceeds X. That's why you need to define what X is in the agreement. If the agreement says, "no pets", what is the agreed penalty for a violation? I guess you don't have one yet, or you wouldn't be asking the question. You might want to add one now.
Regardless of whether or not it was all neatly described with penalties for pets and extra cleaning, if the damage and extra cleaning was real (and I believe what you say is true), then my answer to these people would be to send them a firm and polite letter, something like this:
Dear Mr(s) Tenant,
Please find enclosed itemised list of deductions made from the deposit.
1. item: broken, replacement cost $X
2. item: repair at cost, $X
3. item: missing, replacement cost $X
4. Extra Cleaning: as per our agreement, x hours were included, but our cleaners reported XXX hours were needed to restore the house to its prior condition, resulting in a charge of XX hours extra @ the agreed rate of $X per hour.
5. Penalty for bringing animal into the property (if one exists in the agreement).
Total: $XXXXXX
Security Deposit paid: $XXXXXX
Balance due to tenant: $X (...or...) $0 (.....or) -$X
Please be informed that we are forwarding a copy of this account to our lawyer together with photographs of the damage, to put on record our side of the story. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and should you disagree with ours, we would encourage you to seek proper professional advice from your own lawyer.
Please accept our check in full and final settlement. (....or...) However, so far as we are concerned, this is the end of the matter. (....or...) We look forward to receiving your check.
Yours sincerely,
Mr(s) Landlord
_____________________________
I bet you another $1 you will never hear from them again, because they know what they did. They were not blind when they arrived, they were not blind when they left. I'm sorry you had bad luck, but fortunately, these kinds of people are very rare. Most guests are absolutely wonderful, but when you do meet one of these, don't give in, or they will do the same thing next year and the next and the next and one time it might be my place. So, please, if your deductions are truly fair, stand your ground, whether it's a partial refund, no refund or sending another bill on top of the deposit.
Good Luck!
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Giddy Goat
- Posts: 9054
- Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:38 am
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Absolutely spot on[as usual JoannaI bet you another $1 you will never hear from them again, because they know what they did. They were not blind when they arrived, they were not blind when they left. I'm sorry you had bad luck, but fortunately, these kinds of people are very rare. Most guests are absolutely wonderful, but when you do meet one of these, don't give in, or they will do the same thing next year and the next and the next and one time it might be my place. So, please, if your deductions are truly fair, stand your ground, whether it's a partial refund, no refund or sending another bill on top of the deposit.
Good Luck!
] The Law and common sense all rolled into one ....
our very own Judge Judy[have you got a Bert]
We are so lucky having you here Joanna.......a real asset
Hi Vasily,
Did you actually get a letter from a lawyer? I'm assuming your damage deposit is no more than a few hundred euros - and it costs about that just to have a lawyer draft a letter. Sounds like they're chancing their arm here.
If your contract is written in French, it's watertight as regards the law in France. If in English, less so - but I believe the courts would be likely to take your side.
I can't believe anyone would be prepared to spend legal fees to recoup a few hundred euros - it's just not worth it. Stick to your guns! And I agree with Joanna: a letter detailing the extra costs that you incurred, right down to cost of hiring a carpet cleaner or whatever, and reminding them of the "no animals" clause is an excellent idea and will probably bring an end to the matter.
Good luck!
Elaine
Did you actually get a letter from a lawyer? I'm assuming your damage deposit is no more than a few hundred euros - and it costs about that just to have a lawyer draft a letter. Sounds like they're chancing their arm here.
If your contract is written in French, it's watertight as regards the law in France. If in English, less so - but I believe the courts would be likely to take your side.
I can't believe anyone would be prepared to spend legal fees to recoup a few hundred euros - it's just not worth it. Stick to your guns! And I agree with Joanna: a letter detailing the extra costs that you incurred, right down to cost of hiring a carpet cleaner or whatever, and reminding them of the "no animals" clause is an excellent idea and will probably bring an end to the matter.
Good luck!
Elaine
Lounging on the lily pad...
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Vasily,
There is one little thing which would help a lot when we are responding to your requests for assistance, advice or opinions.
That “little thing� is to specify your location in your profile. In your first posting you mentioned a “French lawyer� which leads us to believe that your location is in France, otherwise you might just as well be located in Outer Mongolia. To complete the set of personal particulars you could also add your Web Site address – it would help us all in “knowing you�.
Joanna’s observations and suggestions are spot on. It would be a very weird legal system which didn’t reflect what she is saying.
Fluffy
There is one little thing which would help a lot when we are responding to your requests for assistance, advice or opinions.
That “little thing� is to specify your location in your profile. In your first posting you mentioned a “French lawyer� which leads us to believe that your location is in France, otherwise you might just as well be located in Outer Mongolia. To complete the set of personal particulars you could also add your Web Site address – it would help us all in “knowing you�.
Joanna’s observations and suggestions are spot on. It would be a very weird legal system which didn’t reflect what she is saying.
Fluffy
Ros,Ros wrote:Absolutely spot on[as usual Joanna
The Law and common sense all rolled into one ....
our very own Judge Judy[have you got a Bert]
Thanks for the compliments, you made my day! But for the avoidance of doubt, I am not a lawyer and I do not give legal advice. Whatever I say is only my personal opinion, given as a fellow vacation rental owner. To answer your other question, no, I don't have a Bert, but I do have a Dennis (from Brooklyn, so may not count....
)Have a great weekend and thanks again for your kind words.
Hi Joanna...
Your very welcome I really do mean it........If you do get your own TV series
Maybe I could be your agent ...
I am GGs but theres only so much you can do with a goat.....no matter how beautiful she is...... 
Have a nice weekend yourself..... Take care.......
Maybe your sig should be 'On your best day your not as smart as me on my worst day' as JJ says
Your very welcome I really do mean it........If you do get your own TV series
Maybe I could be your agent
...I am GGs but theres only so much you can do with a goat.....no matter how beautiful she is......
Have a nice weekend yourself..... Take care.......
Maybe your sig should be 'On your best day your not as smart as me on my worst day' as JJ says