Noisey Neighbours

[Banksie]

Hi,

Whilst I use the term 'noisey neigbours', I have to say that they are probably just going about their daily life and the problem relates to the general building methods in Spain - i.e. the transmission of hard heel noise because of the concrete through the ceiling and, voice noise through the walls of my apartment in Cabo Roig, Costa Blanca.

It does become frustrating though when the people above and at the side bang about either early in the morning or late at night.

We've had the flat for almost 4 yrs and only use it for personal holidays and lets to family etc. It was nearly new when bought and I'd hoped that building methods would have improved over the years but this seems not to be the case.

Does anyone have experience of doing something in your own flat to reduce the noise? I imagine it works both ways in that if I do do something to prevent noise transmission then my neighbours will benefit and not hear me. That's it! Comments welcome.

Banksie

[Mouse]

ooo I sympathise Banksie - we lived in an apartment for 5 years before moving to the villa and I had all manner of problems with neighbours over the years (at one point I was living above a couple, 4 kids and 6 poodles in a 2 bed flat! Oh the stories I could tell you! )

anyway I digress....I searched and searched for a solution and never really found one that anyone would guarantee would work........then in January I stayed in an apartment in the Gothic Quarter of Barcelona. Its great for bars/restaurants etc but isn't the most selubrious area. When I saw the building I was staying in my heart sank as the 'neighbours' were very noisey. But - I walked into the apartment and it was pure heaven...peace and quiet and not a peep from the neighbours on either side or above and below.

So when I got back I asked the owner what he'd done. Basically he'd had every wall and ceiling ('cept the kitchen and bathroom) insulated and then covered in plasterboard...it was amazing - and SO warm!
Now, he said he'd done it mainly cos the walls needed replastering so he thought it wasn't much more to go the whole hog....but the effect was much better than he thought it would be on both sound and energy bills

Expensive - but if I was ever in the same situ again I'd do it (at least in the bedrooms)

BTW - have you ever heard the old spanish adage about always trying to buy the top floor flat in any development? There's less noise to suffer!

Good luck!
Mouse
x

[mon269]

I don’t know if this is the case but in many a modern block of flats in Spain, the walls don’t meet the ceiling. In other words, the wall only goes about 20cm higher than the plasterboard ceiling that you see but not all the way up to meet the concrete one (I’m not sure my explanation makes much sense).

In these cases, the noise is not coming through the walls but through the gap over them. Not sure that explains the noise from upstairs though.

Anyway, I hope this helps somehow.

[Sue Dyer]

My sympathies. We have a noise problem at home but not at our rental where the walls are nearly 2 foot thick stone. Our home problem is the vomitting man next door.... The house is rented out to some Asian students. One (well, I'm presuming one and not having a rota at it!) is frequently sick. Every morning at least, sometimes as early as 4 a.m. then at points through the day. Even though our house is an old terrace with thickish walls we can hear him clearly. I've said to my husband I wonder if the guy has some kind of eating disorder as it isn't just women who binge eat, get anorexia.

I'm glad in a way this happens here where I just zone it out now and not at our rental. I'd hate anyones holiday to be accompanied by "the vomitting man".

[alifrank1]

my sympathies too! My neighbours here in UK decided to get rid of their carpets and just have floorboards. Unfortunately they have three young children and the noise carries far more now. Luckily they are in bed by about 8pm but not sure what it will be like when they are older

As for Spain, I'm fine as I'm on the top floor at one end of three and my lounge wall is against my neighbours bedroom so don't really get any noise, but my friend the other side has a terrible time with the neighbour's TV and music. It almost sounds like it's coming from their apartment. I think with the tiled floors as well sounds just carry.

It sounds like mouse definitely had the answer!

[Alan Knighting]

Does anyone have experience of doing something in your own flat to reduce the noise?

Sound proof an individual flat in a concrete block? Teach a pig to fly? No way! I think it would be cheaper to buy a villa or a finca but then, what about the neighbours?

Fluffy

[vrooje]

Basically he'd had every wall and ceiling ('cept the kitchen and bathroom) insulated and then covered in plasterboard...it was amazing - and SO warm!

I was going to suggest something like that... that perhaps you could cover the interior of your walls with something less rigid than concrete, so that the material would absorb the sound transmitted so easily through the walls. But it's just a gedanken experiment, not something I have first-hand experience with.

[Banksie]

Wow, the quickest reponses to a posting ever for me!. Five replies already.

Obviously a problem recognised and shared by others both with rented and home properties. Not sure what Fluffy is trying to say but I will look at some sort of insulating solution. Think that will be cheaper than the 10% cost of selling and moving.

It's worth noting that we have a tenement flat in Edinburgh built around 1840. Yup, it's a top floor flat I know with timber beams, but the void between our floor and downstairs ceiling is filled with 'deadening' - which is cinder and ash. I hear that there's little to beat it for soundproofing. I just thought that Spanish building methods would have improved.

And, in hindsight, a top floor flat at the end of a block would have been nice but, with the premium of a few thousand more euros that I don't have. Last used method to beat the noise was ear plugs - a few pence. However, Like Sue Dyer I worry about people who use my flat being disturbed when I'm not there.

Thanks for the information.

Banksie

[alifrank1]

Last used method to beat the noise was ear plugs - a few pence. However, Like Sue Dyer I worry about people who use my flat being disturbed when I'm not there.

In restaurants and pubs etc you often see a bowl full of mint imperials, why don't you leave a bowl of earplugs in the bedrooms

[Alan Knighting]

Not sure what Fluffy is trying to say but I will look at some sort of insulating solution. Think that will be cheaper than the 10% cost of selling and moving.

Quite simple really. Due to the nature of concrete buildings a substantial amount of noise is transmitted through the structure itself and it is virtually impossible to eradicate it.

Yes, you can reduce how it affects your own apartment but to achieve any real success you need to treat all walls, floors and ceilings with some form of damping material.

Having said that, a small reduction may be all you are looking for and a small reduction should not be difficult to achieve.

Fluffy

[Banksie]

Thanks Fluffy,

Wasn't sure if you'd had some nasty esperiences in trying to reduce noise.

I think the problem is that we do not suffer any real noise at home and when we go to our flat it appears quite invasive.

Given that many Spanish folk live in flats around our area then it must be the norm but, I think people who live there all the time must develop mutual respect and understanding - i.e. removing shoes when entering the flat, whereas casual visitors don't fully appreciated.

My son is in his last year of archtitecture and one of his pals is Spanish - I'll ask my son to discuss it with Paco and see if we can influence the future eh?

Regards

Banksie

[Big Sis..]

Hi All..

I do sympathise in this noise issue.
As has been discussed the building methods used in Spain makes the houses very echoey....Theres no insulation.. which they are and chilly in the winter months[its usually warmer outside the houses when we go Nov/dec and Feb/March than inside....
Also its marble staircases and tiled floors.

Our houses arent too bad as they are semidetached and joined just to each other...but the other houses in the street are terraced and they can usually hear things from 4 houses down......
Its mostly furniture moving or people wearing clogs[thats what it sounds like but is probably just flip flops] going up and down stairs...
Also tele and music can be heard more clearly upstairs than down in the room its being played in....the showers and toilets can be heard quite clearly next door as well..
Its not too bad for us as the houses are mostly rented to groups holidaying together so they can easily tell each other to try to keep the noise down..
but I could see how it could be a problem for other people who are renting. ...

[Alan Knighting]

Thanks Fluffy,

Wasn't sure if you'd had some nasty experiences in trying to reduce noise.

Not at all. One of my client companies was involved in building blocks of flats and converting large houses into flats. Effective noise insulation was always a difficult and expensive thing to deal with. Firstly, as much noise as possible has to be retained within each flat and as little as possible allowed to get into the structure of the building. Secondly, any noise finding its way into the structure has to isolated there and not allowed to find its way into any individual flat. Neither of these things can be achieved with a role of two of mineralised felt.

Living in a semi is a different kettle of fish altogether. You only have the noise from one other attached property to worry about and the party wall is usually the thickest structural wall in the whole building. You may also notice that, in semi's, it is not uncommon to have the halls, stairs and landings against the party wall and to have the living areas away from the party wall. This is partly for structural purposes and partly for sound isolation purposes.

Fluffy