From my own (recent) experience of the rental market (and other areas), I believe one of the hallmarks of a successful small business is flexibility. At the end of the day, you have to give customers what they want, otherwise they go elsewhere.
There is a huge amount of latitude in the way people operate, and their chosen approach has often been honed over several years of trial and error.
I think you have to be careful about seeing things in black and white terms. If guests are booking and leaving happy, you must be doing something right.
Rush of last minute summer bookings
Fil, I choose to use availability calendars because when all of my properties are full, then people don't waste their time applying. My compromise is that I still want to fill my properties so I have to manipulate to a certain extent.
When it is, say, a month or so in advance and I still have availability in the big house, for example, I make the decision that I will let it for a reduced price. I can't publicise this info easily on listing sites, so I manipulate the availability to show the small cottage is available, to get enquiries. If I get an enquiry, I generally first go to the people who have booked it and ask if they would like first option on the larger property for the same price. 10 times out of 10 they have said yes. Then I let the smaller cottage to the people who have just enquired.
It isn't deceptive at all, if I were trying to flog off a coal hole with no pool and an outside toilet, that would be unethical.
At the end of the day (if you want to continue the clichés) it is good business sense.
Edit: Great post RR! You are quite right, as independent owners we all have our own way of doing things and when you have been renting for a few years you know what works for you. I just resent the implication that I am doing something underhand and unethical, because I'm not.
When it is, say, a month or so in advance and I still have availability in the big house, for example, I make the decision that I will let it for a reduced price. I can't publicise this info easily on listing sites, so I manipulate the availability to show the small cottage is available, to get enquiries. If I get an enquiry, I generally first go to the people who have booked it and ask if they would like first option on the larger property for the same price. 10 times out of 10 they have said yes. Then I let the smaller cottage to the people who have just enquired.
It isn't deceptive at all, if I were trying to flog off a coal hole with no pool and an outside toilet, that would be unethical.
At the end of the day (if you want to continue the clichés) it is good business sense.
Edit: Great post RR! You are quite right, as independent owners we all have our own way of doing things and when you have been renting for a few years you know what works for you. I just resent the implication that I am doing something underhand and unethical, because I'm not.
Last edited by la vache! on Thu May 10, 2007 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Normandy Cow
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LV, I wasn't getting at you (and I don't think Fil was either), because I see nothing wrong whatsoever in what you are doing. As you say, it is a win-win.La Vache wrote:How can it be unethical if you are giving them more space for their money with the same outdoor facilities?
You do still have availability, so you are not deceiving anybody.
But earlier in this thread, some people were contemplating changing their calendars to show some of their summer weeks as still being available, just to "find out" if people weren't contacting them because their calendars were full. This is what I was disagreeing with...
Mooo back
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Alan Knighting
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Fil,
I see nothing unethical about that; I’m trying to discover what is affecting my business, a business I have been successfully running for 7/8 years. It is not like “going into a shop to buy something that one sees on the window and then having someone trying to sell you another thing�. It is like going into a shop only to find they have sold out of what you want.
It’s not a matter of the "results justify the means"; it’s a matter of finding out why the results have changed. In the long run it’s a matter of Listing Sites and availability calendars and providing a better service both to my clients and to me.
I think you are being excessively “black and white� about this whole thing.
Fluffy
I suppose I am responsible for the current interest being shown in availability calendars. I’m only proposing temporarily “adjusting� one of mine because I think it might be adversely affecting my enquiries as a whole. If I don’t “adjust� it I will never know what the answer might be and having “adjusted� it and obtained my answers I will “adjust� it back again.I am on the side of those that consider the "manipulating" calendars as being unethical.
I see nothing unethical about that; I’m trying to discover what is affecting my business, a business I have been successfully running for 7/8 years. It is not like “going into a shop to buy something that one sees on the window and then having someone trying to sell you another thing�. It is like going into a shop only to find they have sold out of what you want.
It’s not a matter of the "results justify the means"; it’s a matter of finding out why the results have changed. In the long run it’s a matter of Listing Sites and availability calendars and providing a better service both to my clients and to me.
I think you are being excessively “black and white� about this whole thing.
Fluffy
LV,
Nothing personal in my coments. I just believe that this forum should be used to share diferent views and, hopefuly, consolidate some standards, including ethical. All professional activities have theis own shared ethic principles, why shoudn't we ? We all have to gain if most follow good principles as the trust in HR offers will increase.
I took a look at your properties and they are beautiful. The website also looks very professional. I am sure you did not intend any wrongdoing.
From your explanation, you expect to sell the new equirer exactly what she / he asked for, on the assumption that the former enquirer will accept the upgrade. It is "an almost certainly to happen assumption" but an assumption anyway.
Isn't it possible to put clearly at the top of your site a "special offer" sign ?
Nothing personal in my coments. I just believe that this forum should be used to share diferent views and, hopefuly, consolidate some standards, including ethical. All professional activities have theis own shared ethic principles, why shoudn't we ? We all have to gain if most follow good principles as the trust in HR offers will increase.
I took a look at your properties and they are beautiful. The website also looks very professional. I am sure you did not intend any wrongdoing.
From your explanation, you expect to sell the new equirer exactly what she / he asked for, on the assumption that the former enquirer will accept the upgrade. It is "an almost certainly to happen assumption" but an assumption anyway.
Isn't it possible to put clearly at the top of your site a "special offer" sign ?
Thanks for your nice comments about the gites Fil!
However, to get people to my site from the rental listing sites I do need to make sure that the availability calendars are manipulated as most people search on dates and number of people a property sleeps. Most people wouldn't dream of applying for a property sleeping 12 if they were only 4, they'd think it was way out of their price range.
I've never had any success with the 'special offers' pages on the listing sites, or else I'd use those rather than fiddle the availability.
Another downside of advertising special offers on your site is that you could upset the people who have booked weeks with you for the same period for the full price! My way of managing the availability doesn't upset anyone.
Yes, it is possible and a good idea for people who come directly to my site - I have done this before. However, if I upgrade the first people who booked, the second enquirers are none the wiser and they are just getting what they enquired for, not a special offer.Fil wrote: Isn't it possible to put clearly at the top of your site a "special offer" sign ?
However, to get people to my site from the rental listing sites I do need to make sure that the availability calendars are manipulated as most people search on dates and number of people a property sleeps. Most people wouldn't dream of applying for a property sleeping 12 if they were only 4, they'd think it was way out of their price range.
I've never had any success with the 'special offers' pages on the listing sites, or else I'd use those rather than fiddle the availability.
Another downside of advertising special offers on your site is that you could upset the people who have booked weeks with you for the same period for the full price! My way of managing the availability doesn't upset anyone.
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Normandy Cow
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Yes! I have had the same problem!!! I've just started marketing a friend's oast house here in Sussex, and we've realised that we are a touch on the expensive side in July/August, so we have changed our prices from £600pw to £550. I've just emailed the two lots of people who have already booked for that period and told them that we had reduced their price too!!!!! Some may say I am mad, but I just didn't think it was fair...La Vache wrote:Another downside of advertising special offers on your site is that you could upset the people who have booked weeks with you for the same period for the full price! My way of managing the availability doesn't upset anyone.
Back to the original thread. I don't think you should change the way you are currently doing things LV, as already mentioned, it is a win-win situation, I don't think you are deceiving anybody, and if it works for you, then carry on.
LV...
and as she and then Fluff said things are never black and white..[certainly not in this business.. ]
Im Sure we all know that you are a 'owner who cares'[where have I heard that before ]
Getting back to Fluffs original point...
As you all must know I dont do availability calenders..[for lots of different reasons...doesnt mean I wont in the future but at the moment Im not..]
I have had a really busy booking season..and am mostly booked through to Oct..
But ...and this is the point..it has gone very quiet for me too..[having been frantically busy up to last month]
As Im not showing availability and never have..
this cant be a factor..and as Ive said Im mostly booked but the guests dont know that....
Im on lots of different sites so dont thinks its that
Very Strange
Twas wasnt it LVEdit: Great post RR! You are quite right, as independent owners we all have our own way of doing things and when you have been renting for a few years you know what works for you. I just resent the implication that I am doing something underhand and unethical, because I'm not.
and as she and then Fluff said things are never black and white..[certainly not in this business.. ]Im Sure we all know that you are a 'owner who cares'[where have I heard that before
]Getting back to Fluffs original point...
As you all must know I dont do availability calenders..[for lots of different reasons...doesnt mean I wont in the future but at the moment Im not..]
I have had a really busy booking season..and am mostly booked through to Oct..
But ...and this is the point..it has gone very quiet for me too..[having been frantically busy up to last month]
As Im not showing availability and never have..
this cant be a factor..and as Ive said Im mostly booked but the guests dont know that....
Im on lots of different sites so dont thinks its that
Very Strange
Hi Susan 
Must admit neither are that good for me
..maybe thats why...It would be awkward with the 2 props anyway..Lots of Enq from HLets but not many bookings..so I am being found..but weveboth discussed that in the past...
I get most of my bookings for both houses together.and on any of the websites there arent many in that category.
..so Im usually on the first page if people are looking for a large group
I think thats definitely why Ive done well this year but all my friends who own props
[who arent on this forum] say its been a difficult year
Must admit neither are that good for me
..maybe thats why...It would be awkward with the 2 props anyway..Lots of Enq from HLets but not many bookings..so I am being found..but weveboth discussed that in the past...
I get most of my bookings for both houses together.and on any of the websites there arent many in that category.
..so Im usually on the first page if people are looking for a large group
I think thats definitely why Ive done well this year but all my friends who own props
[who arent on this forum] say its been a difficult year
Hi Enid
together mostly but some sites insist that I also have another advert for them separately...but if you look on the adverts its always 2x3 bedroomed houses as my main advert....
Theres a lot of competition for 3 bedded houses..and to be honest if i take a 1 house booking early on i know that i will miss a booking for both houses later...
together mostly but some sites insist that I also have another advert for them separately...but if you look on the adverts its always 2x3 bedroomed houses as my main advert....
Theres a lot of competition for 3 bedded houses..and to be honest if i take a 1 house booking early on i know that i will miss a booking for both houses later...
Just a quick note on 'how can we judge the enquiry/booking patterns'.
I've just analysed the enquiries from my 1st year of renting the villa. I didn't get to the rental website until very end of April so enquiries only started coming in May (same time as now actually) and obviously I had complete availability.
2005
May; 80% enquiring for July and August. 20% for June.
June; 70% for August. 30% September
2006 I obviously had little availability showing - but from the ones who still enquired without looking at the calendar;
May; 95% July/August (mainly Aug) 5% June
June; 40% July. 60% September
so given that I've only had availability for last wk in June and some weeks in September since Feb (and I have a note above my contact details to say 'check availability' before emailing). perhaps thats why my enquiry level has dropped.
Mouse (who has finally got some time on her hands!
)
x
I've just analysed the enquiries from my 1st year of renting the villa. I didn't get to the rental website until very end of April so enquiries only started coming in May (same time as now actually) and obviously I had complete availability.
2005
May; 80% enquiring for July and August. 20% for June.
June; 70% for August. 30% September
2006 I obviously had little availability showing - but from the ones who still enquired without looking at the calendar;
May; 95% July/August (mainly Aug) 5% June
June; 40% July. 60% September
so given that I've only had availability for last wk in June and some weeks in September since Feb (and I have a note above my contact details to say 'check availability' before emailing). perhaps thats why my enquiry level has dropped.
Mouse (who has finally got some time on her hands!
)x
One martini, two martini, three martini floor!
