My current prices consider one basic price for 1-2 people and an extra charge per day for any extra person (more than 12 years old).
The apartment - a city apartment - has 2 bedrooms and allows two more people sleeping in the living room in a solid sleeping couch.
So the normal living occupancy would be 4 but, being a large apartment, it can comfortably accomodate 6 people for short stays in the above refered circumstances.
I think the extra charge is fair considering the extra costs involved and also allows me to have a competitive offer for couples.
My intention is not to maximize revenue here, so I only like to accept groups of more than 4 if they are families.
Do you think it is fair that I charge all extra guests the same price considering that guests 5-6 will be sleeping in a couch or that it would be better to diferentiate between guests 3-4 (20 €) and 5-6 (10 €)?
Do you think that it would it be acceptable that I introduce a "family" clause stating that groups superior to 4 will have to have family ties ?
Thank you for your help.
Pricing extra people - What do you think ?
Hi Fil,
I'm curious to know why you don't just have a price for 4 people as the advertised price, then offer a discount for 2 people only. Then it would be a simple extra charge of 10€ per person for the sofa bed accommodation in the case of 6 people staying.
"Do you think that it would it be acceptable that I introduce a "family" clause stating that groups superior to 4 will have to have family ties ?"
I think it is acceptable, but I'm not sure it will necessarily be respected and how you plan to police it!
I'm curious to know why you don't just have a price for 4 people as the advertised price, then offer a discount for 2 people only. Then it would be a simple extra charge of 10€ per person for the sofa bed accommodation in the case of 6 people staying.
"Do you think that it would it be acceptable that I introduce a "family" clause stating that groups superior to 4 will have to have family ties ?"
I think it is acceptable, but I'm not sure it will necessarily be respected and how you plan to police it!
Hello Fil,
Your apartment is gorgeous.
I see what you mean when you say perhaps 5 and 6 should have a reduction for sleeping on the couch.
When I am looking for places to rent, not often these days. I do get a bit peeved when I think I have found the perfect place and then read in the small print that there are extra charges to add on.
A bit like when you find a flight and then have to start adding extras for everything from the meal to the fuel suppliment.
Lots of Cyprus rentals add an extra charge for Aircon, personally I think the price shown should be an all inclusive price.
You could show a price for full occupancy and offer reduced prices for under-occupancy, that would be a bonus for couples.
It is a hard one isn't it?
You could say that the couch is only suitable for children upto 12, that would ensure they are family members.
I think I've confused myself now
Ruth Edit: sorry lv I posted at the same time
Your apartment is gorgeous.
I see what you mean when you say perhaps 5 and 6 should have a reduction for sleeping on the couch.
When I am looking for places to rent, not often these days. I do get a bit peeved when I think I have found the perfect place and then read in the small print that there are extra charges to add on.
A bit like when you find a flight and then have to start adding extras for everything from the meal to the fuel suppliment.
Lots of Cyprus rentals add an extra charge for Aircon, personally I think the price shown should be an all inclusive price.
You could show a price for full occupancy and offer reduced prices for under-occupancy, that would be a bonus for couples.
It is a hard one isn't it?
You could say that the couch is only suitable for children upto 12, that would ensure they are family members.
I think I've confused myself now
Ruth Edit: sorry lv I posted at the same time
I suppose this depends on a couple of things. Firstly, what do other rentors do in your area.
Secondly, do you provide bed linen ? If so, then presumably all the beds are made up (except the couch beds) whether occupancy is two or four - on the basis that you can't be certain of their sleeping arrangements. So, you are allowing for the cleaning of both bedrooms and the laundering of all the bedlinen regardless of whether there are two or four people staying. The only saving if there are only two people staying is therefore some saving in water usage which, financially, will probably be negligible.
I think it may be reasonable to charge extra for the bed linen for the extra sofa beds as the bedding for these can be locked away and not made available if not required.
I too would stick with a fixed price for up to four people but, unless you are there the whole time then you won't know how many people are staying there, or whether they are related. My advice would be to simply make sure you have a good clear contract with the party leader and make it clear that he/she is solely liable for all members of his/her party. Don't worry too much about any other hangers on.
Secondly, do you provide bed linen ? If so, then presumably all the beds are made up (except the couch beds) whether occupancy is two or four - on the basis that you can't be certain of their sleeping arrangements. So, you are allowing for the cleaning of both bedrooms and the laundering of all the bedlinen regardless of whether there are two or four people staying. The only saving if there are only two people staying is therefore some saving in water usage which, financially, will probably be negligible.
I think it may be reasonable to charge extra for the bed linen for the extra sofa beds as the bedding for these can be locked away and not made available if not required.
I too would stick with a fixed price for up to four people but, unless you are there the whole time then you won't know how many people are staying there, or whether they are related. My advice would be to simply make sure you have a good clear contract with the party leader and make it clear that he/she is solely liable for all members of his/her party. Don't worry too much about any other hangers on.
I prefer to advertize the lowest price because I believe most couples would just skip to another add after seeing the advertized price without even bothering to see the discount offer. And they would also miss it on a search according to price.
Agree that the "family clause" might be dificult to enforce. But otherwise, if I lower the charge for guests 5-6, I would be promoting the offer to big groups which is not my intention.
Agree that the "family clause" might be dificult to enforce. But otherwise, if I lower the charge for guests 5-6, I would be promoting the offer to big groups which is not my intention.
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Fil,
I have little to contribute because my approach for my properties is that each guest sleeps in a bed in a bedroom. I don't offer a discount for unused beds.
Having said that, I think you are right to make an extra charge for each extra guest. After all, they’re each getting all the facilities of the apartment not just somewhere to lay their heads.
Fluffy
I have little to contribute because my approach for my properties is that each guest sleeps in a bed in a bedroom. I don't offer a discount for unused beds.
Having said that, I think you are right to make an extra charge for each extra guest. After all, they’re each getting all the facilities of the apartment not just somewhere to lay their heads.
Fluffy
Hi Fil,
First of all, I respect the fact that every owner has to approach this sort of question in the way that suits them best. I can only give you my opinion . . .
Having looked at your holiday-rentals website listing I would make the following observations, from a potential client's perspective. The first thing is that the apartment is advertised as "2 bedrooms" (one double and one twin) which would immediately make me consider as suitable for a group of two couples. The place looks great and if I were looking to book I would initially be getting quite excited. Then I would read the small print and discover that the price quoted wasn't anything like what it is going to cost me. In fact it would cost an extra 280€ (or 35% more than the published low season price) for a one week stay. Now my reaction to that would be that I had been drawn in under false pretences and I think I would then close the page and move on to another property out of principal. Now, I know that what you are doing is no worse than what the cheap airlines do all the time but somehow I wouldn't expect that from a private owner.
It's also quite strange that, if your aim is to keep the bottom line price as cheap as possible, you include not just end of stay but midweek cleaning in the price. Could this not be offered as an option ?
Having said all that, your bookings look to be very good and the place looks lovely so you can't be doing much wrong ! I can see where you are coming from with your "per person" type rate and maybe for short breaks it is relevant. My concern is that the weekly customers (which presumably are the ones you want most in the summer months to avoid those odd days when the place is empty) might prefer the all inclusive pricing.
I would like to think that your guests are going to be happy to pay a higher basic price for the quality which you offer without the need for hidden costs.
James.
First of all, I respect the fact that every owner has to approach this sort of question in the way that suits them best. I can only give you my opinion . . .
Having looked at your holiday-rentals website listing I would make the following observations, from a potential client's perspective. The first thing is that the apartment is advertised as "2 bedrooms" (one double and one twin) which would immediately make me consider as suitable for a group of two couples. The place looks great and if I were looking to book I would initially be getting quite excited. Then I would read the small print and discover that the price quoted wasn't anything like what it is going to cost me. In fact it would cost an extra 280€ (or 35% more than the published low season price) for a one week stay. Now my reaction to that would be that I had been drawn in under false pretences and I think I would then close the page and move on to another property out of principal. Now, I know that what you are doing is no worse than what the cheap airlines do all the time but somehow I wouldn't expect that from a private owner.
It's also quite strange that, if your aim is to keep the bottom line price as cheap as possible, you include not just end of stay but midweek cleaning in the price. Could this not be offered as an option ?
Having said all that, your bookings look to be very good and the place looks lovely so you can't be doing much wrong ! I can see where you are coming from with your "per person" type rate and maybe for short breaks it is relevant. My concern is that the weekly customers (which presumably are the ones you want most in the summer months to avoid those odd days when the place is empty) might prefer the all inclusive pricing.
I would like to think that your guests are going to be happy to pay a higher basic price for the quality which you offer without the need for hidden costs.
James.
Fil, if your main market is for couples, then surely it is better to advertise that on the listing site, rather than for 6 people?
I may be wrong, but if you do a search on holiday rentals for somewhere sleeping 6 in Lisbon, you get details for your property, but the pricing is for 2 people only.
(and you said my availability calendar manipulating was unethical??
)
I may be wrong, but if you do a search on holiday rentals for somewhere sleeping 6 in Lisbon, you get details for your property, but the pricing is for 2 people only.
(and you said my availability calendar manipulating was unethical??
)Hi Fil
I would also add that because of restrictions on the HL site, your preperty is priced on the main list as 'Per Property per Week'. A bit misleading.
Saying that, when I did a search for very similar properties, in Lisbon, they all seemed to charge extra, mostly for over 3 persons. So you are following the trend. So most of your possible clients would find the same thing with other properties.
You seem to be fairy well booked (not surprised as it is a lovely apartment) so perhaps, don't fix it??
Ruth
Edit: what happened with my spelling on this post,sorry
I would also add that because of restrictions on the HL site, your preperty is priced on the main list as 'Per Property per Week'. A bit misleading.
Saying that, when I did a search for very similar properties, in Lisbon, they all seemed to charge extra, mostly for over 3 persons. So you are following the trend. So most of your possible clients would find the same thing with other properties.
You seem to be fairy well booked (not surprised as it is a lovely apartment) so perhaps, don't fix it??
Ruth
Edit: what happened with my spelling on this post,sorry
Last edited by guest 4 on Wed May 16, 2007 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I can't say I've bumped into a 2 double bedroom rental that charges extra for the 3rd and 4th person! I prefer rentals being priced on the property and it's # of beds, and extra occupancy charges for those requiring sleeper sofa/pull out bed.
I'd up the pricing personally so you include 4 people. Aren't you tempting renters to just not mention the 3rd and 4th person they plan on holidaying with? I've not checked your market/competition though so if everyones doing it this way, then I guess you have to, otherwise your pricing will look much higher.
Also I have never had a renter ask for a deduction on our rates because there are only 2 or 4 of them.
I'd up the pricing personally so you include 4 people. Aren't you tempting renters to just not mention the 3rd and 4th person they plan on holidaying with? I've not checked your market/competition though so if everyones doing it this way, then I guess you have to, otherwise your pricing will look much higher.
Also I have never had a renter ask for a deduction on our rates because there are only 2 or 4 of them.
Thank you so much for you valuable comments and (some very self flavored 
criticism.
Our market is becoming more and more the "city breaks" market and less the "holiday" market. And couples are the majority in the "city breaks" market.
This is the reason I have resisted pricing the apartment only for 4 people, risking to be uncompetitive for couples.
I am however very keen on transparency and your remarks make me think. I do not intend to cause the impression I have hidden costs or anything similar.
It is interesting to notice how diferent the city breaks market is becoming from the holiday market. Shame that there are not many people on LMH renting city apartments.
criticism. Our market is becoming more and more the "city breaks" market and less the "holiday" market. And couples are the majority in the "city breaks" market.
This is the reason I have resisted pricing the apartment only for 4 people, risking to be uncompetitive for couples.
I am however very keen on transparency and your remarks make me think. I do not intend to cause the impression I have hidden costs or anything similar.
It is interesting to notice how diferent the city breaks market is becoming from the holiday market. Shame that there are not many people on LMH renting city apartments.
Re: Pricing extra people - What do you think ?
The short answer is no, I wouldn't, it off-putting. In this day and age, the legal definition of "family" and the genders involved is highly debatable. Also, check your local regulations.Fil wrote: Do you think that it would it be acceptable that I introduce a "family" clause stating that groups superior to 4 will have to have family ties ?
Stipulating maximum occupancy is one thing, but you're going to look a little silly telling inquirers that you can't offer the house unless they produce a marriage certificate or some other proof of a particular kind of relationship they have with the other invitees and guests......quicksand at best, suicide more likely....
Please treat everyone equally, it's only being fair to them.
Hello again Fil (your apartment looks fantastic by the way!)
I've just done a search on holiday rentals (not sure if you advertise anywhere else) and in the search criteria, you have 1 - 4 people as the first category which I would have thought ideal for your apartment (at the moment it isn't there as you say it sleeps 6). Couples searching would automatically find your property there, and the pricing wouldn't be so misleading as you put in the from and to price depending on the capacity. I'd forget about the sofabed unless someone asks specifically, I hate including things like that in the accommodation, but it can be a useful extra on occasions.
I've just done a search on holiday rentals (not sure if you advertise anywhere else) and in the search criteria, you have 1 - 4 people as the first category which I would have thought ideal for your apartment (at the moment it isn't there as you say it sleeps 6). Couples searching would automatically find your property there, and the pricing wouldn't be so misleading as you put in the from and to price depending on the capacity. I'd forget about the sofabed unless someone asks specifically, I hate including things like that in the accommodation, but it can be a useful extra on occasions.
I started to reply to this last night but didn't have much new to add. Suffice to say that people get graduate degrees in pricing models.
This morning, though, I think I may have something relevant: LV's comment about sofabeds is a good example of one of the many differences Fil alludes to with his insightful comment about city breaks and longer holiday lets.
For a stay of one week+, I think there is a limited number of professional (target market?) couples who would want to split a couch/bedroom scenario. We, however, get a regular stream of guests consisting of two couples travelling together, one couple in bedroom, one couple in living room. I assume Fil might see the same in his apartment: guests who sure seem like they could easily afford separate bedrooms... but for 3 nights on a city break, why bother?
As such, I think Fil would be seriously limiting his market if he didn't mention the sofabed and price accordingly.
(A sofabed will also get you those snoring couples who need either an extra bed in another room or two hotel rooms. I was very surprised at the value-add of a sofabed: if you've got it, flaunt it!)
debk
p.s. - For statistical purposes, our initial rates are for 1-3 adults with each additional adult charged extra. Without this breakdown, the properties would be too expensive for a couple and too cheap (we tried this at first, got the wrong type of guests) for 4+ adults travelling together.
This morning, though, I think I may have something relevant: LV's comment about sofabeds is a good example of one of the many differences Fil alludes to with his insightful comment about city breaks and longer holiday lets.
For a stay of one week+, I think there is a limited number of professional (target market?) couples who would want to split a couch/bedroom scenario. We, however, get a regular stream of guests consisting of two couples travelling together, one couple in bedroom, one couple in living room. I assume Fil might see the same in his apartment: guests who sure seem like they could easily afford separate bedrooms... but for 3 nights on a city break, why bother?
As such, I think Fil would be seriously limiting his market if he didn't mention the sofabed and price accordingly.
(A sofabed will also get you those snoring couples who need either an extra bed in another room or two hotel rooms. I was very surprised at the value-add of a sofabed: if you've got it, flaunt it!)
debk
p.s. - For statistical purposes, our initial rates are for 1-3 adults with each additional adult charged extra. Without this breakdown, the properties would be too expensive for a couple and too cheap (we tried this at first, got the wrong type of guests) for 4+ adults travelling together.