A Virtual Tour to increase bookings?
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Tom Greveson
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:13 pm
- Location: Leeds, UK.
Tips
Things are certainly lively in this forum, it's good to see!
There seems to be some interest on the topic of virtual tours, I can offer essential tips for anyone deciding to use them. Research and experience tells me these are the most common/important questions:
1 What equipment is used and how are the photos taken?
2 How are photos 'stitched' to give seamless images?
3 Hosted or not hosted tours – what is this?
4 Extra features – hotspots/floor plans/flat panos/CD-Rom
5 How long does it take and what should it cost?
6 Can I create 360 virtual tours and host them myself?
I'm conscious of bombarding you all with too much information at once, so I will go through each area separately and field any questions you may have, I hope this seems a sensible way of carrying on.
1 What equipment is used and how are the photos taken?
This was Paulo's Question and a great one to start with. For a 360 degree panorama, the camera, VR head and tripod are placed in the centre of the room (or garden – external shots can really help show off beautiful scenery). A series of shots are then taken from this position, the number of shots depends on the lens used.
CAMERA - Equipment used varies greatly but essentially, for creating high quality panoramas, you need a camera that can be set for manual exposures (preferably digital). The auto exposure setting on a camera adjusts for the light level of each shot, so when it comes to putting your photos together the effect will be a panorama with light and dark bits as you click and drag around with your mouse. I use a Canon 10D camera.
LENS - A fisheye or wide angled lens is required. A fisheye can do the job with only 2-3 shots, but the end result is an panorama with more distortion and less quality than one that has been created using say a 14mm lens with 37 shots for a full panorama. Fisheye lenses and very wide angled lenses sometimes give lens flare especially when the sun is bright or there are many lights on the ceiling of a room, for these conditions an 18mm lens does the job.
TRIPOD - A good quality and solid tripod helps avoid any shake which can result in blurred images. I use a manfrotto.
PANO HEAD - The panoramic head is the special bit. They come in all shapes and sizes and enable the panographer to locate the camera's nodal point. This is the point at which the rays of light converge, it is essential the camera rotates around this point or the photos won't correctly match up when it comes to stitching. A good VR head has different settings that allow different lenses to be used.
TIP – When ordering a tour think about whether you want a cylindrical (single row) or a spherical (multi row) panorama of each room/garden. Cylindrical is a lot quicker for the panographer but will leave you with a panorama where you can't look all the way up or down. Research shows that multi row is the way to go as the end user's view isn't restricted. Because of this I only create spherical panoramas.
Multi row (spherical) means taking shots (full 360 degree rotation) at 0 degrees, then tilted down at 45 degrees, then up at 45 degrees with one up (the zenith) and one down (the nadir).
TIME TAKEN– This largely depends on the lens used. Using my 14mm wide angled lens I can take the photos for a spherical panorama of a room in 10-15min. So an averaged sized 4 bed house will take me a morning or afternoon.
It is not essential that you know all about the equipment used and exactly how photos are taken (unless you are going to do it yourself of course), but I hope by shedding some light on this topic you will now know a little more about the on-location aspect of creating virtual tours. Knowledge is power and all that! I hope this has been of interest.
There seems to be some interest on the topic of virtual tours, I can offer essential tips for anyone deciding to use them. Research and experience tells me these are the most common/important questions:
1 What equipment is used and how are the photos taken?
2 How are photos 'stitched' to give seamless images?
3 Hosted or not hosted tours – what is this?
4 Extra features – hotspots/floor plans/flat panos/CD-Rom
5 How long does it take and what should it cost?
6 Can I create 360 virtual tours and host them myself?
I'm conscious of bombarding you all with too much information at once, so I will go through each area separately and field any questions you may have, I hope this seems a sensible way of carrying on.
1 What equipment is used and how are the photos taken?
This was Paulo's Question and a great one to start with. For a 360 degree panorama, the camera, VR head and tripod are placed in the centre of the room (or garden – external shots can really help show off beautiful scenery). A series of shots are then taken from this position, the number of shots depends on the lens used.
CAMERA - Equipment used varies greatly but essentially, for creating high quality panoramas, you need a camera that can be set for manual exposures (preferably digital). The auto exposure setting on a camera adjusts for the light level of each shot, so when it comes to putting your photos together the effect will be a panorama with light and dark bits as you click and drag around with your mouse. I use a Canon 10D camera.
LENS - A fisheye or wide angled lens is required. A fisheye can do the job with only 2-3 shots, but the end result is an panorama with more distortion and less quality than one that has been created using say a 14mm lens with 37 shots for a full panorama. Fisheye lenses and very wide angled lenses sometimes give lens flare especially when the sun is bright or there are many lights on the ceiling of a room, for these conditions an 18mm lens does the job.
TRIPOD - A good quality and solid tripod helps avoid any shake which can result in blurred images. I use a manfrotto.
PANO HEAD - The panoramic head is the special bit. They come in all shapes and sizes and enable the panographer to locate the camera's nodal point. This is the point at which the rays of light converge, it is essential the camera rotates around this point or the photos won't correctly match up when it comes to stitching. A good VR head has different settings that allow different lenses to be used.
TIP – When ordering a tour think about whether you want a cylindrical (single row) or a spherical (multi row) panorama of each room/garden. Cylindrical is a lot quicker for the panographer but will leave you with a panorama where you can't look all the way up or down. Research shows that multi row is the way to go as the end user's view isn't restricted. Because of this I only create spherical panoramas.
Multi row (spherical) means taking shots (full 360 degree rotation) at 0 degrees, then tilted down at 45 degrees, then up at 45 degrees with one up (the zenith) and one down (the nadir).
TIME TAKEN– This largely depends on the lens used. Using my 14mm wide angled lens I can take the photos for a spherical panorama of a room in 10-15min. So an averaged sized 4 bed house will take me a morning or afternoon.
It is not essential that you know all about the equipment used and exactly how photos are taken (unless you are going to do it yourself of course), but I hope by shedding some light on this topic you will now know a little more about the on-location aspect of creating virtual tours. Knowledge is power and all that! I hope this has been of interest.
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Tom,
Thanks for a most informative post on an area more and more owners will want to know about.
The bit about the nodal point explains to me how these panoramas work and mine do not!
There are 3 panoramic heads listed on the UK version of ebay:
http://search.ebay.co.uk/panoramic-head ... 9QQfromZR8
Are they up to the job would you say?
Thanks for a most informative post on an area more and more owners will want to know about.
The bit about the nodal point explains to me how these panoramas work and mine do not!
There are 3 panoramic heads listed on the UK version of ebay:
http://search.ebay.co.uk/panoramic-head ... 9QQfromZR8
Are they up to the job would you say?
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
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spanishvida
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:09 pm
- Location: Costa Blanca
- Contact:
SORRY
I am sorry for breaking the rules, it was my first post and I (stupidly) didn't realise. I am a commercial poster, but I was simply doing it to point out what we charge to help you identify a pricing structure.
The links were there as samples to point out what could be done.
So, sorry again. I won't do it again. I really was just trying to be helpful though
Not advertise myself or pounce. I am based on the Costa Blanca whereas I believe this board covers the world, so I never believed I would get work from it.
Genuine mistake, SORRY.
The links were there as samples to point out what could be done.
So, sorry again. I won't do it again. I really was just trying to be helpful though
Not advertise myself or pounce. I am based on the Costa Blanca whereas I believe this board covers the world, so I never believed I would get work from it.Genuine mistake, SORRY.
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Tom Greveson
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:13 pm
- Location: Leeds, UK.
Tips on buying pano heads
I've had a look at the pano heads spotted on ebay by Paolo:
(http://search.ebay.co.uk/panoramic-head ... 9QQfromZR8)
The first by panosaurus looks to be pretty sturdy and is for multi-row (spherical) 360 panoramas. I've never used this brand before, but I've read a little about them and they have a good reputation.
The next 2 pano heads seem to be the same, but the more expensive version seems to offer 'free' tour software. Perhaps I've misunderstood this seller's advertisement? It looks to be a single row head, so the panoramas created with this one will have a restricted field of view (FOV) so the end user won't be able to look up to the ceiling or down to the floor. As these pano heads are not branded I can't really pass judgement on their quality or reputation.
TIPS WHEN BUYING – Sturdiness and camera/lens compatibility are key. The good stuff doesn't come cheap so if you already have your camera and lens make sure the pano head is compatible to ensure you don't make a mistake when purchasing. Manufacturer sites usually offer guidance.
I forgot to mention in my previous post that I use a Manfrotto 303 spherical head, it's on the pricey side but is really solid (no wobble = crisper 360 panoramas)
A good company for purchasing new panoramic equipment is UK based red-door.co.uk, I purchased my kit from here.
(http://search.ebay.co.uk/panoramic-head ... 9QQfromZR8)
The first by panosaurus looks to be pretty sturdy and is for multi-row (spherical) 360 panoramas. I've never used this brand before, but I've read a little about them and they have a good reputation.
The next 2 pano heads seem to be the same, but the more expensive version seems to offer 'free' tour software. Perhaps I've misunderstood this seller's advertisement? It looks to be a single row head, so the panoramas created with this one will have a restricted field of view (FOV) so the end user won't be able to look up to the ceiling or down to the floor. As these pano heads are not branded I can't really pass judgement on their quality or reputation.
TIPS WHEN BUYING – Sturdiness and camera/lens compatibility are key. The good stuff doesn't come cheap so if you already have your camera and lens make sure the pano head is compatible to ensure you don't make a mistake when purchasing. Manufacturer sites usually offer guidance.
I forgot to mention in my previous post that I use a Manfrotto 303 spherical head, it's on the pricey side but is really solid (no wobble = crisper 360 panoramas)
A good company for purchasing new panoramic equipment is UK based red-door.co.uk, I purchased my kit from here.
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Tom Greveson
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:13 pm
- Location: Leeds, UK.
Work-flow and pricing
Virtual tour providers seem to structure their pricing and organise their work-flow in a variety of ways, as guidance this is how I work....
I charge my clients an amount that makes it worth my while and covers my expenses. For holiday properties abroad this is 500 EUR plus pre-agreed expenses. Expenses would include a flight, accommodation and car rental when necessary, I would find reasonable prices and quote a fixed amount for expenses. I charge an annual hosting fee of 95 EUR per annum after the first year.
It is no secret that once I am in a location it makes sense for me to create as many tours as I can, for this reason I can offer a 20% discount for a person that refers a friend or associate and a 20% discount for the party being referred, so if you ever decide to use my services, team up! But do remember that it only works if you can make your properties available for a tour during the same period (and the properties would have to be within a 1 hour drive of each other, any further and we would discuss a reasonable consideration for this). The discount wouldn't apply to the expense part of the fee which would be divided between the clients involved.
I would be really interested if you could let me know if you think this kind of offer could work, also, if necessary could you have a virtual tour provider visit whilst you have a booking at your holiday home? Would you have to offer your booking discount if this were the case?
Bear in mind some tour providers may seem cheap, just remember to check the quality of their product, make sure they specify how long it will take before the tour is complete and on-line (if applicable) and look out for charges for extras such as:
-additional charges per room
-Full tour of every room in a house
-cost of high speed web hosting
-custom designed webpage (logo and colours)
-personalised direct access sub-domain name
-charges for 360 up to the ceiling panoramas
-architectural floor plans
-hotspots (click on doors to move to next room)
-external 360 movies (front of the property and garden/pool)
-Java and Quicktime viewing options
-CD-Roms
I like creating tours that allow the end user a true virtual tour of the whole house as it makes what I offer a bit different, so I include all the above features in the price mentioned. This way I can be confident I offer the best tours for the money. I give my clients 3 free interactive CD-Roms, it's that tangible element that looks good on a book shelf (clients get a flat panorama of the outside of their property on the DVD sized cases), it also serves as a reminder that I can provide this product too!
Quality and features can vary greatly with virtual tours, the best thing to do is check out the on-line examples your prospective virtual tour provider has created for previous clients, if you see something you like then make sure you request that your tour is created to the same spec. Be wary if there are no good quality on-line examples, this should be the first thing a provider of quality tours should offer, we love showing off our fancy work!
I'm sorry if this (very long) post is looking dangerously close to a business plug, but charges can vary greatly and without mentioning features and quality, I strongly believe price means very little.
I charge my clients an amount that makes it worth my while and covers my expenses. For holiday properties abroad this is 500 EUR plus pre-agreed expenses. Expenses would include a flight, accommodation and car rental when necessary, I would find reasonable prices and quote a fixed amount for expenses. I charge an annual hosting fee of 95 EUR per annum after the first year.
It is no secret that once I am in a location it makes sense for me to create as many tours as I can, for this reason I can offer a 20% discount for a person that refers a friend or associate and a 20% discount for the party being referred, so if you ever decide to use my services, team up! But do remember that it only works if you can make your properties available for a tour during the same period (and the properties would have to be within a 1 hour drive of each other, any further and we would discuss a reasonable consideration for this). The discount wouldn't apply to the expense part of the fee which would be divided between the clients involved.
I would be really interested if you could let me know if you think this kind of offer could work, also, if necessary could you have a virtual tour provider visit whilst you have a booking at your holiday home? Would you have to offer your booking discount if this were the case?
Bear in mind some tour providers may seem cheap, just remember to check the quality of their product, make sure they specify how long it will take before the tour is complete and on-line (if applicable) and look out for charges for extras such as:
-additional charges per room
-Full tour of every room in a house
-cost of high speed web hosting
-custom designed webpage (logo and colours)
-personalised direct access sub-domain name
-charges for 360 up to the ceiling panoramas
-architectural floor plans
-hotspots (click on doors to move to next room)
-external 360 movies (front of the property and garden/pool)
-Java and Quicktime viewing options
-CD-Roms
I like creating tours that allow the end user a true virtual tour of the whole house as it makes what I offer a bit different, so I include all the above features in the price mentioned. This way I can be confident I offer the best tours for the money. I give my clients 3 free interactive CD-Roms, it's that tangible element that looks good on a book shelf (clients get a flat panorama of the outside of their property on the DVD sized cases), it also serves as a reminder that I can provide this product too!
Quality and features can vary greatly with virtual tours, the best thing to do is check out the on-line examples your prospective virtual tour provider has created for previous clients, if you see something you like then make sure you request that your tour is created to the same spec. Be wary if there are no good quality on-line examples, this should be the first thing a provider of quality tours should offer, we love showing off our fancy work!
I'm sorry if this (very long) post is looking dangerously close to a business plug, but charges can vary greatly and without mentioning features and quality, I strongly believe price means very little.
Inspired by this thread, and reeled in by ebay, I have overnight equipped myself with the gear to make 360 virtual tours. I bought a tripod for £20/$40 and a panoramic head for £30/$60. At these prices I am not expecting much but let's see if I can get any sort of result.
I think that Photoshop has a 'stitching' function to help photos join seamlessly, but perhaps I need specialised software for this. Any tips?
I think that Photoshop has a 'stitching' function to help photos join seamlessly, but perhaps I need specialised software for this. Any tips?
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
Tom,
To answer your question, I would not feel comfortable imposing a photographer during a rental period unless it was pre-arranged with a discount. Presumably it is quite intrusive - not so much you with a tripod, but the preparation and 'dressing' of each room.
You're right, your last post is sailing very close to the wind, but I'll let it stand.
To answer your question, I would not feel comfortable imposing a photographer during a rental period unless it was pre-arranged with a discount. Presumably it is quite intrusive - not so much you with a tripod, but the preparation and 'dressing' of each room.
You're right, your last post is sailing very close to the wind, but I'll let it stand.
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
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Tom Greveson
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:13 pm
- Location: Leeds, UK.
Stitching software
Thanks for the feedback Paolo, you're right about the dressing of rooms of course, a point that should be stressed, as a good virtual tour should be used for years, so if the house isn't looking just so, it could niggle the owner for a long time.
Cheers for running with my last post too, here are a few tips for stitching software by way of thanks
I've not looked at the photoshop stitching facility yet.
I use Realviz Stitcher 4.0, this is often considered to be the best software for creating spherical panoramas (multi-row), it is a little pricey but download a trial to see what you think: www.realviz.com.
I've recently come across VR panoworx by www.vrtoolbox.com, this software seems to only create single row panoramas and I couldn't compress the finished panorama as much as I'd like for on-line viewing (that could just be me though), but it is fast and simple and the results are good. Again, try the downloadable demo and let me know what you think.
There are plenty more out there but once you get comfortable with one you tend to stick with it, so I will have a have think/look and let you know of some more websites with stitching software.
Cheers for running with my last post too, here are a few tips for stitching software by way of thanks
I've not looked at the photoshop stitching facility yet.
I use Realviz Stitcher 4.0, this is often considered to be the best software for creating spherical panoramas (multi-row), it is a little pricey but download a trial to see what you think: www.realviz.com.
I've recently come across VR panoworx by www.vrtoolbox.com, this software seems to only create single row panoramas and I couldn't compress the finished panorama as much as I'd like for on-line viewing (that could just be me though), but it is fast and simple and the results are good. Again, try the downloadable demo and let me know what you think.
There are plenty more out there but once you get comfortable with one you tend to stick with it, so I will have a have think/look and let you know of some more websites with stitching software.
Hm, so from my perspective I'm not sure a virtual tour would be worth it. E500 plus travel expenses, plus having to lose a potential booking during the high season for the best pictures, plus (for us at least) the cost of going to the property to be there for the shoot. That could really add up!
I'd estimate that we'd have to book 3 extra weeks to make that worth it. That seems like a pretty big investment to me. Not necessarily a no-go, but just something that would require a lot of research on its effectiveness.
Sorry to be such a naysayer... I'm still just not sure of how big an advantage it has over good photos and a floor plan.
Cheers!
I'd estimate that we'd have to book 3 extra weeks to make that worth it. That seems like a pretty big investment to me. Not necessarily a no-go, but just something that would require a lot of research on its effectiveness.
Sorry to be such a naysayer... I'm still just not sure of how big an advantage it has over good photos and a floor plan.
Cheers!
Brooke
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spanishvida
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:09 pm
- Location: Costa Blanca
- Contact:
Can I just point out...
In my previous posting, although deemed commercial, whereas the commercial one on this page is not, I did warm you that these things are NOT as difficult as you might think to produce. They SHOULD also be very cheap. So, please take note of that. Our lowest price was 50 euros INCLUSIVE, compare that to the 500 euros plus expenses as mentioned on this latter post.
By the way, with a steady hand you can even do it yourself, you can even download shareware software to do the stitching.
500 Euros!!!!!!!!!!! Ha.
By the way, with a steady hand you can even do it yourself, you can even download shareware software to do the stitching.
500 Euros!!!!!!!!!!! Ha.