A Virtual Tour to increase bookings?

Up, down, could be better? How to get more bookings is our number one obsession. Talk shop here.
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vrooje
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Post by vrooje »

Well, I mean, let's be nice about things.

I wasn't saying that Tom is overcharging for his service. I think asking for payment of travel costs is reasonable, and E500 might be a respectable price given the time spent at the house, plus the time spent stitching and writing any code that may be necessary, plus a fraction of equipment and software costs. It could work out to a modest hourly rate given that the tour covers the whole house. I honestly don't know.

I am interested in whatever results Paolo might have with his new tripod and panoramic head. If it works well, or at least acceptably, I will invest as well! But then, I love tinkering around with graphics and graphics programs. Not everyone does.

I guess it boils down (for me) to what I'm willing to spend time on and what I'd pay others to spend their time on instead. I pay a mechanic to perform even minor maintenance on my car, but I like to do photoshop/graphics stuff myself. For some it's the other way around, and others would pay for both or neither.

I do appreciate all the help and advice Tom has given. Since he also asked us all whether it's a service we'd want to invest in, I've been giving my opinion -- but that's a personal thing and not everyone will feel the way I do! Those in the UK particularly may be able to cut down on travel costs for Tom or another vendor.

So um... this is just the longest way ever of saying that what I posted above is simply my two cents! :)
Brooke
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tansy
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Post by tansy »

My husband being a photographer - I'm lucky...we will definetely be doing a 360 shoot ourselves...once we've got the last of our building work finished off Mike is going to sit down and work out his cameras/software etc. Flog a few on ebay - buy a new one no doubt

...but 500 Euros is not a bad price if Tom is going to do all the lighting, all the software work etc. etc.

I've been photographers assistant with all the lights etc....believe you me it is quite hard work ....and to be honest I get bored, opening and closing all those brollies and white thingies...see I'm even technical! :lol:
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paolo
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Post by paolo »

I agree with Brooke, I wouldn't pay very much at all for 360 degree pics, mainly because I think they are an interesting novelty rather than a necessity. But for my investment of £50/$100 in the necessary equipment, I'd like to see what sort of results I can get - certainly not as good as a pro, but maybe good enough to improve my sites.

I don't think 500 euros is an extortionate amount for the time involved though - I should think all the work you have to do after the photography would really add up.

The bottom line is - how much more likely are you to get a booking enquiry because you have a virtual tour rather than just pics? I was looking for a house to spend the week before Christmas in the UK. I looked at a lot of houses and the one I really wanted was this one:

http://www.theoldmill.me.uk/

I really liked the virtual tours on this site, I think they were a big part of its appeal. If you have VTs of your key rooms, like this one has, you can't hide anything - with ordinary pics, you never know what has been left out of the frame. (It was booked by the way, a long time in advance).
Paolo
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A-two
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Post by A-two »

Coincidentally, I was on the phone yesterday about this (not having seen this post). I stumbled across a company called circlepix (add the .com) and they quoted me $99 for 5 x 360 views plus 1 still image. If I want extra shots, or a retake, they are $25 each. The hosting is free and indefinite - no time limit.

They researched a photographer for my area and said that if I booked that day (Friday afternoon), they would get a photographer to call me Monday and once photographed, it would be available online within 48 hours.

Now, I don't know about anybody else, but I thought this was very good value and will definitely do it. The decision now is whether to wait for Summer for the exterior shots, or shoot now, then repeat exteriors for Summer, Fall, Winter etc. to attract people in the low season.

A point worth noting - I found Circlepix through a For Sale By Owner website. They don't seem to have caught on to the Rental market, hence the unlimited hosting is not an issue (or they will give you code to add to your site if requested.)

It just seems incredibly good value to me. This is only available in the US so far as I know, but there are a couple of offers above that seem to to have similar pricing.

My take - go for it if it puts you ahead of the game in areas where the competition is heavy.
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paolo
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Post by paolo »

I also think that is incredibly cheap. Setting aside the indefinite hosting, you are paying $99 for what I presume must be at least 3-4 hours of skilled time - photographer and image manipulator. That doesn't leave much of a profit margin for them.
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tansy
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Post by tansy »

The estate Agents that specialise in the houses in Wentworth, Ascot, Windsor etc. are using virtual tours as an everyday sales tool...perhaps it would be worth while investigating what they are doing...I'll try & find out.
Tom Greveson
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Post by Tom Greveson »

Brilliant feedback, just the kind of stuff I was hoping for.

You can create 360 panoramas for yourself and some of the tips I've posted should hopefully set those interested on their way to creating their own virtual tours. I can draw similarities with those that create their own websites, if you have the time, patience, a bit of money to invest and a real interest then it's definitely possible. The end result will obviously depend on the level of competence the individual achieves.

Laughing at my prices seems a little harsh Spanishvida, especially when you haven't even seen the quality of my product. I have seen your tours (the link given prior to your first post's edit), I suggest you stick to your prices and I'll stand by mine. I believe there is a market out there for both of our products.

Tansy/Brooke, cheers for the supporting comments regarding time taken, though Tansy I have to point out that the best way to light an indoor panorama is to use the light available and open the curtains (additional lighting presents a whole array of problems when capturing a 360 degree environment- don't even use a flash, just manually set the exposure level). Time spent at a location is a very small proportion of the total time taken to create the tour. Sat at the computer afterwards stitching good quality spherical images (fisheye lens shots take minutes to stitch-high quality spherical panoramas with a wide angled lens take a lot longer)/creating floor plans/adding hotspots on doors/creating Java and quicktime versions/including every room in a property and outside panoramas – it all takes time.

The prices I mentioned equate to an hourly rate that is less than half of what a good web-designer charges despite my set-up costs being a lot more and this being more of a niche product. That said, I'm confident that this is the way forward in terms of on-line holiday property viewing, I just have to try my best to persuade my sceptics!

http://www.theoldmill.me.uk/ I think this tour is okay, but the software used to create them give a very 'flat' feeling to the panorama, like you're scrolling along a flat image and not within a sphere. As Paolo says, with a virtual tour you can't hide anything, so there could be a big advantage for those with well maintained/unique property in a beautiful location where photos just don't do the place justice.

Janny came in with a good question regarding redoing rooms that have been decorated etc. I would personally charge a small amount for that re-shoot, but then there is the expense of getting to the location, the only way I can see of getting around this expense would be to be flexible and allow the re-shoot to be tagged onto another job in the area/country. Failing that, this could seriously add to the cost of re-decorating a room! So I'd suggest making sure any major changes to a property are carried prior to a tour being shot.

Brooke addressed the topic of return on investment, I'd suggest that a tour is seen as having a minimum of a 5 year life, so spread that cost! Losing a booking could be an issue, rather than losing a week would it be possible to offer 25% reduction for that week? Perhaps the lower price may even attract clients that would otherwise have gone elsewhere? Or if you take your holidays at your house could you book a tour for then?

My research with holiday makers so far shows that using a virtual tour as a preview prior to booking can rid any uncertainty and give added confidence. If this proves to be the case then those who are first to use virtual tours should have a considerable advantage, but I'm bound to say this! So does anyone out there use virtual tours already? If so what response have you had from your clients?
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vrooje
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Post by vrooje »

Thanks for all the comments, Tom!

That's a good point on spreading the investment return over a few years. Another thing to consider is this: our property has thus far had no trouble booking every week of the high season without a virtual tour. So, the tour would have to be able to bring in clients during the low season in order to be something more than a novelty -- and that subject is an entirely new topic!

But not every property is already able to book their high season, so I can't say I'm unhappy at having that comment to make! :)

Another question: what happens if you travel a long distance to a shoot and it rains all week?

I had a look at my digital camera and the tripod attachment hole is just barely offset from the lens center! D'oh! :) But I suppose that does mean that it's not too far offset to use a panoramic tripod head. I'm also not sure that my camera can take fully manual settings -- how important is this feature given photoshop's ability to change balance/contrast/color settings of a photo?

Cheers!
Brooke
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tansy
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Post by tansy »

Tom - sorry I was talking normal photos with real film!

As said I don't have a problem at all with the price - I thought it fair considering time you would need to get it all up & running...I would go for it...but someone's nose here would be out of joint!

It is the first time my husband has felt like picking up a camera since 'retiring' 5 years ago - so I must encourage! - I think the building novelty has worn off AT LAST!!!

But I am still very interested in the hosting and any improvements you could do to our efforts....will be in touch.
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paolo
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Post by paolo »

Tom,

Out of interest, can you refer us to a top-of-the-range, up-and-down VT tour so we can see what you get for the money?
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Tom Greveson
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Post by Tom Greveson »

Hi,

Brooke, perhaps a virtual tour of a holiday property is something that will help give it the leading edge in (what seems to be) the highly competitive low season, though I have nothing to prove or disprove whether this is the case as yet.

I have created a tour for a client that has a rental property in Annecy,(France), so I shall feedback on his findings. This client uses French Country Cottages (FCC) as an agent, as part of my brief I created a custom built web page designed to look similar to the website of FCC. So this tour is created and hosted by me but this is not my website, take a look as this is the way I believe high-end virtual tours should be, (if you don't already have it, when on the webpage I recommend downloading the free version of Quicktime by clicking on the 'QT' in the bar on the left – without Quicktime you can't view all the features available):

http://www.annecy.revview.co.uk

Poor weather is a tricky one, you'll notice snow on the first shot of the above tour, but as the property is a Winter and Summer rental my client was happy with the snow shots. It should be noted that the weather will only effect 20% of the shots needed for the tour. Balcony, garden and pool shots will be taken as soon as the weather breaks. An effort will then be made to re-capture the shots at a later date when the weather conditions are better and I am in the area.

I often use photoshop to tweak my images after stitching (this requires converting a movie to a JPEG and then back). Achieving an even balance by adjusting the levels of each photo might prove a little tricky and if not done perfectly the unequalised images will give the movie a vertical banding effect. But give it a go and see what you can come up with, I'd be interested to know.

If your husband is a retired photographer Tansy then he'll certainly be off to a flying start when it comes to creating panoramas! All the best to him.
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tansy
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Post by tansy »

Tom - Fleet street..he's only 50 something...gave up at the peak as it were!
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Tom,

If that is what virtual tours are all about then all I can say is "Wow! - Superb!". I think the 360° panoramic views are great but what I really like is the link into each room. By the way, the shots are excellent as well; clean, bright, sharp and load quickly. I am on 1.2 mb broadband so they should.

Even if virtual tours are expensive in terms of time and money and even if they have no positive effect on bookings they will surely be a "must have" for some.

Technically, I take it that it is necessary to use a digital camera, and not a 35 mm SLR for this job, with a good tripod. Is it necessary to have both a wide-angle lens (say 29 mm) and a panoramic lens?

Alan
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vrooje
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Post by vrooje »

Tom,

As far as I know, Quicktime is not available for Linux, so I can't view the tour! :( Are there any java-based tours you could link me to?

Thanks.
Brooke
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paolo
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Post by paolo »

On this tour you can grab the picture and look up and down as well as side to side - that's pretty wacky. As a punter I would really, really appreciate the fact that a tour like this shows absolutely everything - no nasty surprises when I turn up for my holiday.
Paolo
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