Any advice welcome! I have finally found a forum to discuss all matters relating to holiday homes but it took some finding I tell you! Of course now my son has asked what have you been doing on the computer all day? (Reading lots of posts of course). Haven't mentioned to the kids what I am thinking of - they'd not be pleased!
Anyway the proposition is for me and hubby to buy a newly refurbished leasehold holiday chalet in a small coastal village in Norfolk. I have wanted to venture into property for years and this allows me in at the cheaper end of the market. I know and love the area having holidayed all my life there, as have my parents and grandparents!
My first dilemma is that certainly at the present time I would need to raise some of the funding via a loan. The cottage would be fully managed and on with a large national company who have marketed the site for years. (Approx 45 similar properties all gradually being refurbished after 30 odd years). Having done a spreadsheet the figures aren't great - the loan tips it into needing approx 18 full weeks and 6 short breaks to potentially break even. Is this realistic? The ground rent, maintenance charges and all other costs quickly mount up and whilst it is partly a future holiday home for me that is not the primary reason for doing it. It will be available 52 weeks a year to the open market and I will only use it if it is not booked. My brother owns a larger property just up the road that I can use and is more suitable for us currently with a largish family.
The refurbishment is lovely, the site has no facilites, so is quiet, family friendly with a large grassed area, childrens play equipment and just 50 yards from the beach.
So I could go on and on but I would love some feedback on this bit first. Thanks.
Norfolk holiday chalet
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tree-peony
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Firstly, welcome to LMH!
TBH I think it is cutting it a bit fine, especially with the economic situation as it is. Also, what potential for capital growth is there? When you say 18 weeks plus a few short breaks are these spread over the most popular periods/price bands? Have you looked at similar rental properties to check booking levels/rents?
Our property isn't in the UK, but I based my calculations on 8 weeks peak season and 8 weeks shoulder. In addition the historic capital growth was very attractive (average 18% PA), so it's worked out very nicely for us so far
TBH I think it is cutting it a bit fine, especially with the economic situation as it is. Also, what potential for capital growth is there? When you say 18 weeks plus a few short breaks are these spread over the most popular periods/price bands? Have you looked at similar rental properties to check booking levels/rents?
Our property isn't in the UK, but I based my calculations on 8 weeks peak season and 8 weeks shoulder. In addition the historic capital growth was very attractive (average 18% PA), so it's worked out very nicely for us so far
http://www.gozoluxury.co.uk
actually quite nice apartment in Gozo!
actually quite nice apartment in Gozo!
I expect as things really bite hard next year, taking holidays at 'home' (Britain) will increase.TBH I think it is cutting it a bit fine, especially with the economic situation as it is.
When you say refurbished are they done so in a style which may appeal to a more discerning sort of punter? Or have they just been given a lick of paint?
Here's an example of some 60's holiday chalets which have been given an interesting facelift:
http://www.thelittlebluehouse.co.uk
What cute chalets!
Yes the refurbish is to a high standard. The chalets are in rows of four so they are terraced, but they have been stripped out completely, rewired, replumbed, new internal walls, fully insulated, electric heating, new kitchen, new bathroom etc. The final finish is clearly down to furniture etc and we either can buy one already equipped or choose to furnish it ourselves. Still undecided on that one.
Yes the refurbish is to a high standard. The chalets are in rows of four so they are terraced, but they have been stripped out completely, rewired, replumbed, new internal walls, fully insulated, electric heating, new kitchen, new bathroom etc. The final finish is clearly down to furniture etc and we either can buy one already equipped or choose to furnish it ourselves. Still undecided on that one.
Hi Deb I live in Norfolk [Its a lovely place to have a holiday]
but I have noticed that we dont get the level of Holidaymakers that we once did.
People tend to come for short breaks now,or day trips.
That might change slightly because of the credit crunch etc but you might be looking at it a bit optimisticly.
Are there similar places nearby and have you looked at their availability.
The no facilities is a bit of a worry as well.
It might seem quite nice on a hot summers day to have nothing to do on site.But out of the summer months[and even in the summer months the way the weather has been recently] it could put some people off.
It would also mean you would have to rent more cheaply that someone on a site with facilities.
I recently visited a friend who was staying in a caravan near Cromer, a lovely place with no facilities ,and shed booked it because of this and because it made it cheaper.
It is good that you know the area though and if you and your family have always holidayed there you will have a good idea about how busy it is likely to be.[Much more than I have]
Are there any restrictions to how many weeks it can be rented out I know in some Holiday chalets near me that they cant be lived in certain times of the year.
[[edit]rereading your post I see you say its available 52 weeks so thats a plus!!]
All things to be considered.
Im not trying to be negative about this and if you do go ahead I wish you the best of luck.
Take Carexxxxxxx
but I have noticed that we dont get the level of Holidaymakers that we once did.
People tend to come for short breaks now,or day trips.
That might change slightly because of the credit crunch etc but you might be looking at it a bit optimisticly.
Are there similar places nearby and have you looked at their availability.
The no facilities is a bit of a worry as well.
It might seem quite nice on a hot summers day to have nothing to do on site.But out of the summer months[and even in the summer months the way the weather has been recently] it could put some people off.
It would also mean you would have to rent more cheaply that someone on a site with facilities.
I recently visited a friend who was staying in a caravan near Cromer, a lovely place with no facilities ,and shed booked it because of this and because it made it cheaper.
It is good that you know the area though and if you and your family have always holidayed there you will have a good idea about how busy it is likely to be.[Much more than I have]
Are there any restrictions to how many weeks it can be rented out I know in some Holiday chalets near me that they cant be lived in certain times of the year.
[[edit]rereading your post I see you say its available 52 weeks so thats a plus!!]
All things to be considered.
Im not trying to be negative about this and if you do go ahead I wish you the best of luck.
Take Carexxxxxxx
Thanks all for your advice so far. I have relooked at the figures and decided to borrow less money to make it more viable.
Myself and my two younger kiddies are off on Friday to go and stay in the chalet (or shall I be grander and call it a cottage?!) and have a try before we buy. Really looking forward to it. I wonder if there are any obvious questions I should be asking that I haven't thought of? Hmmmm.
Reading some other threads esp the comments on the UK water park developments just makes me wonder where to go with pricing the property. They are being marketed at the same price as last year, there are several for sale and there will be more coming on the market over the next year or so as the developer gradually refurbishes them all. However the ones I am looking at are unquestionably in the best position in the park with sea views and no possibility of losing that view to further development (which may or may not happen in later years.
The developers are renting them out though regardless of whether they get sold or not, so I guess they are prepared to ride the storm out in this current market.
So my property has already been furnished and let for this year so far. You can choose to buy all, some or none of the furniture on top of the purchase price (but clearly as it already has bookings you need furniture immediately.)
Any thoughts anyone?
Myself and my two younger kiddies are off on Friday to go and stay in the chalet (or shall I be grander and call it a cottage?!) and have a try before we buy. Really looking forward to it. I wonder if there are any obvious questions I should be asking that I haven't thought of? Hmmmm.
Reading some other threads esp the comments on the UK water park developments just makes me wonder where to go with pricing the property. They are being marketed at the same price as last year, there are several for sale and there will be more coming on the market over the next year or so as the developer gradually refurbishes them all. However the ones I am looking at are unquestionably in the best position in the park with sea views and no possibility of losing that view to further development (which may or may not happen in later years.
The developers are renting them out though regardless of whether they get sold or not, so I guess they are prepared to ride the storm out in this current market.
So my property has already been furnished and let for this year so far. You can choose to buy all, some or none of the furniture on top of the purchase price (but clearly as it already has bookings you need furniture immediately.)
Any thoughts anyone?
Windys not about at the mo 
but im sure he will be able to give you a few pointers..........
Nothing like been there and done that, is there......and hes doing really well with his
Good Luck!!
re..... furniture well while your there you will be able to decide wont you...re quality etc...
also you could price some alternatives up from shops etc......
Its quite handy. as you say to 'try before you buy'.......
Take Carexxxxxxx
but im sure he will be able to give you a few pointers..........Nothing like been there and done that, is there......and hes doing really well with his
Good Luck!!
re..... furniture well while your there you will be able to decide wont you...re quality etc...
also you could price some alternatives up from shops etc......
Its quite handy. as you say to 'try before you buy'.......
Take Carexxxxxxx
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Giddy Goat
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- Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:38 am
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Yes we had a lovely weekend- I think as Big Sis knows it was generally a good weekend weather wise and we had a few hours sunbathing! Amazing I know after such a horrible summer. 
My conclusion was that yes, I think a purchase is looming! I whittled down the choice of chalets, but unfortunately the one in the best position (ie an 'end' one as opposed to a terraced, and with the best internal layout as there are some variants) was the one with the internal furnishing I least liked! I know wall colours etc can be changed but I just don't like the flooring - dark tiles in the kitchen and dark laminate in the lounge - which make it quite dark and not a 'seaside' feel.
So, I am still in negotiation to see how much discount I can get (still going up as we speak!) and then hoping to take my hubby back for a mini survey of the particular chalet and look for any faults etc.
I also hope if possible to delay the purchase until the new year as it makes more sense for various financial reasons. In theory, you can leave a deposit and that secures the property for 6 months, but I'm not sure whether that would be at full marketing price or my reduced version!
I will have many more questions, which I shall be asking, maybe in different forum sections, because I can see that more people 'hang out' in other areas than this! But I am so enjoying loitering around the forum, whiling away the hours I can't really spare but getting a warm welcome from some very helpful people which make it all worthwhile!
My conclusion was that yes, I think a purchase is looming! I whittled down the choice of chalets, but unfortunately the one in the best position (ie an 'end' one as opposed to a terraced, and with the best internal layout as there are some variants) was the one with the internal furnishing I least liked! I know wall colours etc can be changed but I just don't like the flooring - dark tiles in the kitchen and dark laminate in the lounge - which make it quite dark and not a 'seaside' feel.
So, I am still in negotiation to see how much discount I can get (still going up as we speak!) and then hoping to take my hubby back for a mini survey of the particular chalet and look for any faults etc.
I also hope if possible to delay the purchase until the new year as it makes more sense for various financial reasons. In theory, you can leave a deposit and that secures the property for 6 months, but I'm not sure whether that would be at full marketing price or my reduced version!
I will have many more questions, which I shall be asking, maybe in different forum sections, because I can see that more people 'hang out' in other areas than this! But I am so enjoying loitering around the forum, whiling away the hours I can't really spare but getting a warm welcome from some very helpful people which make it all worthwhile!
Deb
Just seen this - a couple of quick points as I am a bit snowed under.
1. Occupancy rates and rental values seem higher when you manage these things yourself. Can you do this?
2. Don't forget to factor in any disposal costs (our site charges 7.5% + VAT just to allow you to sell your lodge!).
3. Check your site belongs to the BH &HPA and subscribes to their code of practice.
4. Find out what people are saying about the management company. You are going to have to work with them a lot. I'd do this again like a shot if it were not for the hassle I've had with the park owners at my place. As it is I'd probably look elsewhere now.
5. Look into Capital Allowances with your accountant. If your tax man agrees you can save a lot of money as lodges can generally be classed as plant and equipment (which houses can't.)
6. Don't forget that wooden chalets (is that what your is?) in exposed places need expensive repainting between every one year and every 3 depending on where they are.
I may have more thoughts if time permits later
In the meantime this post from another forum may be helpful
http://limefitt.com/smf/index.php/topic,214.0.html
It's specifically about buying on our site, but there are some general pointers there as well.
Hope this helps
John
Just seen this - a couple of quick points as I am a bit snowed under.
1. Occupancy rates and rental values seem higher when you manage these things yourself. Can you do this?
2. Don't forget to factor in any disposal costs (our site charges 7.5% + VAT just to allow you to sell your lodge!).
3. Check your site belongs to the BH &HPA and subscribes to their code of practice.
4. Find out what people are saying about the management company. You are going to have to work with them a lot. I'd do this again like a shot if it were not for the hassle I've had with the park owners at my place. As it is I'd probably look elsewhere now.
5. Look into Capital Allowances with your accountant. If your tax man agrees you can save a lot of money as lodges can generally be classed as plant and equipment (which houses can't.)
6. Don't forget that wooden chalets (is that what your is?) in exposed places need expensive repainting between every one year and every 3 depending on where they are.
I may have more thoughts if time permits later
In the meantime this post from another forum may be helpful
http://limefitt.com/smf/index.php/topic,214.0.html
It's specifically about buying on our site, but there are some general pointers there as well.
Hope this helps
John
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Giddy Goat
- Posts: 9054
- Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:38 am
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Yep you were amazingly Lucky last weekend was the best of the summerI think as Big Sis knows it was generally a good weekend weather wise and we had a few hours sunbathing! Amazing I know after such a horrible summer.
.very different to this weekend 
Yep Windy .....youre a star......!!!!!!!Windy! How handy that you stepped by! Sounds great advice.
Hi Windy, thanks so much for your help, as clearly my chalet is a little different to the normal holiday home owned by many on this forum. However it is not a wooden lodge either - it is a newly refurbished non standard construction chalet! (if that is any more understandable - probably not!)
Tax/maintenance issues are hopefully the same as other 'normal' holiday homes.
Thanks for these pointers so far.
It will be fully managed for the first year or two whilst I find my feet, but I will also advertise it privately which will save me some management fees on those periods.1. Occupancy rates and rental values seem higher when you manage these things yourself. Can you do this?
As far as I understand they are houses, that can be lived in for 51 weeks a year, so I hope this does not apply, but I will check!2. Don't forget to factor in any disposal costs (our site charges 7.5% + VAT just to allow you to sell your lodge!).
Checked, and yes they do belong. Thanks!3. Check your site belongs to the BH &HPA and subscribes to their code of practice.
I have spoken to one owner and so far things seem ok, a few teething problems with snagging on the properties, but I will try to track down some more owners.4. Find out what people are saying about the management company. You are going to have to work with them a lot. I'd do this again like a shot if it were not for the hassle I've had with the park owners at my place. As it is I'd probably look elsewhere now.
Tax/maintenance issues are hopefully the same as other 'normal' holiday homes.
Thanks for these pointers so far.
Is it technically movable - the plant & equipment benefits apply if so I think and they are quite significant.a newly refurbished non standard construction chalet
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/camanual/CA22100.htm