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Sandra J



Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 46
Location: North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:50 pm    Post subject: Card Payments Reply with quote

Payment by credit card has become our Guests most chosen option. We were using PayPal but found Guests were not happy to pay the high transaction fee of at least 3.4% (5% for some countries) and we could not absorb this cost when we also offered payment by Bank Transfer and Cheque. WorldPay "Pay by Link" has give us a better option. Like PayPal guests are sent a link by email and then enter their card details but the transaction costs are considerable lower. There is a monthly cost of 7.50 and thereafter a flat fee of 1.50 for debit cards and 1.2% for credit cards in the UK or 2% for non-UK and business credit cards. From a visit by one do their sales managers until we took our first payment was only 5 days. Hope this might be of interest to others as we had been looking for an alternative to PayPal for some time and didn't want to take payments by phone.
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costa-brava



Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 511
Location: costa brava spain

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand the gist of your post Sandra. We pay 2.1% to Paypal. It is deducted from our payment and as far as I know our guests don't pay a penny. It doesn't matter how payment is made these days it costs a percentage.We have always found PP works well.
We only take 20% deposit and offer everybody the option of paying the balance in cash on arrival or through PP before they come. Nearly everybody pays cash so the costs are zero. This means that with just 2% on the first 20% the real cost to us is less than half of one per cent.
We've been doing this for about 10 years and though lots may think it's crazy, it has NEVER caused any problems. I think these days when there are so many scammers out there our guests are happy that they don't have to pay 100% up front.
In any case it keeps our cost of receiving payments down to a negligable level.
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Nemo



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 7030
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. WorldPay have WorldPay Zinc which is their pay as you go version. When I tried to sign up for that an advisor told me I had to have a visit. When the visit happened, they just tried to sell me the full WorldPay package at 20+ a month. Looks like the Pay by link is in response to their competitors and a half way house between the full version and pay as you go. I wonder if they've also changed the ability to take payments as card not present for WorldPay Zinc? It's worth adding to this thread to keep much of the information together.
http://www.laymyhat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21495
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Nemo



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 7030
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

costabravarent, Sandra passes on the Paypal fees, as she's quite entitled to do. I do the same as it's an expensive option of 3.4% in the UK. For all of us who are off site owners, cash on arrival is a complete non starter so payment must be made upfront by one means or another. I receive full payment two months beforehand and won't be changing that anytime soon.
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FelicityA



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 2803
Location: Cotswolds

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds a much better deal than I have been offered up to now. I just had a call (pre-arranged as I had requested it) last week from someone and the best he could do for overseas payments seemed to be about 3% and the monthly cost was 19.99 I think. Worth looking into, thank you Sandra J for taking the time to share this.
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Essar



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 3244
Location: Bournemouth

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

costabravarent wrote:
I don't understand the gist of your post Sandra. We pay 2.1% to Paypal. It is deducted from our payment and as far as I know our guests don't pay a penny. It doesn't matter how payment is made these days it costs a percentage.We have always found PP works well.
We only take 20% deposit and offer everybody the option of paying the balance in cash on arrival or through PP before they come. Nearly everybody pays cash so the costs are zero. This means that with just 2% on the first 20% the real cost to us is less than half of one per cent.
We've been doing this for about 10 years and though lots may think it's crazy, it has NEVER caused any problems. I think these days when there are so many scammers out there our guests are happy that they don't have to pay 100% up front.
In any case it keeps our cost of receiving payments down to a negligable level.


Did you sign up to PayPal's agreement with HL for subscription listings, or do you take over 15ks worth of transactions per month?
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greenbarn



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 5975
Location: The Westmorland Dales, Cumbria

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks interesting.
A brief scan through the information and a bit of research and it looks like:
The guest links directly to the Worldpay facility, and the rental owner doesn't get to see all/any of the card information, and has minimal requirements (if any) under DCI PSS compliance.
That's good for the guests, as it means the owner can't take additional amounts from the card or use the card information fraudulently. It rules out phone payments, but a guest would not be of sound mind to entrust their card details to an unknown individual; plus taking card details over the phone does bring a need for PCI DSS compliance/registration etc etc by the owner.

Paypal has a dreadful reputation, rightly or wrongly, and many people actively avoid them. Now they are separate from ebay this may improve. Or it may get worse.

I didn't see how quickly the owner receives payment; if it's within a few days that's fine.

Rates appear to be reasonable. (Good even?)

We applied for and set up a merchant account with Barclays which means we can accept card payments (which we do in a similar manner - the guest gets a link to the secure Barclays gateway, the information doesn't pass through our system, and we only see the last 4 digits of the card). The WorldPay Pay By Link system looks to be a good and more accessible alternative.
However, the downside: somebody using WorldPay doesn't get Section 75 protection on a credit card payment - which also applies with Paypal of course - so a direct card payment is a better option for the guest.

In the absence of Section 75 cover, it would be interesting to know what protection WorldPay offer (if any, but I'm guessing they do) - which could be very good of course.

By way of comparison, and somebody can prove me wrong here, my understanding is that if somebody pays via one of the big listing sites, they won't get Section 75 protection either.

This might just be a step towards levelling the playing field.....
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kevsboredagain



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 3209
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone considered paying with credit card via Transferwise? Rates seem really good but I've not looked into the details.
https://transferwise.com/help/article/2017724/paying-by-card/paying-with-a-credit-card

People don't like paying extra fees for Paypal and I've had to take the decision to increase my prices 3.4% after this summer and offer "free" Paypal. I was tired of people ignoring my invoices and paying directly, minus any fees. Sadly now everyone will be paying them.
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Essar



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 3244
Location: Bournemouth

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Essar wrote:
Did you sign up to PayPal's agreement with HL for subscription listings, or do you take over 15ks worth of transactions per month?


For everyone's benefit maybe I should explain my question.

During 2013 HL introduced a payment on-line option for subscription model listings. This entailed those owners who wanted it to set up a PayPal account (or use their existing one) to take the payments directly. PayPal & HL integrated the two accounts so it was seamless to the payer. Payments went straight into the owners account immediately. HL/PP agreed a fixed rate for this on behalf of all owners (UK 1.4%+20). Overseas payments attracted an additional 0.5%. The interesting thing is that this rate applied to all PP transactions, not just the HL ones, those of us who use eBay also benefitted by having the lower PP apply to those transactions too. This arrangement is still in place for those who renewed their subscription prior to September 2015 and kept it going. All others pay the 3% payment collection fee that uses a different owner disbursement system.

Users of PP without the HL agreement would have to have a monthly turnover of 15k to achieve the same commission fee cost.
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Sandra J



Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 46
Location: North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little more information.... To send a request for payment log into your WorldPay account and enter the guest name, amount and email address. World pay then send an email to the guest with a link for payment. The guest enters their card details and name & address. They are secure by not revealing their card details to third parties and we as owners get paid knowing the card payment has passed the WorldPay security check. An email is sent once guest has paid which gives their name and address. It then takes 3 working days for the funds to be deposited in your nominated bank account. Transaction fees and the monthly fee are taken by direct debit.
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newtimber



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 1591
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greenbarn wrote:

However, the downside: somebody using WorldPay doesn't get Section 75 protection on a credit card payment - which also applies with Paypal of course - so a direct card payment is a better option for the guest.

In the absence of Section 75 cover, it would be interesting to know what protection WorldPay offer (if any, but I'm guessing they do) - which could be very good of course.



WorldPay have a very confusing website, but it says elsewhere that in order to accept online payments, you need a merchant account (which they set up for you). If that is the case, Section 75 would apply - WorldPay would just be acting as a gateway.
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Essar



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 3244
Location: Bournemouth

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

newtimber wrote:
greenbarn wrote:

However, the downside: somebody using WorldPay doesn't get Section 75 protection on a credit card payment - which also applies with Paypal of course - so a direct card payment is a better option for the guest.

In the absence of Section 75 cover, it would be interesting to know what protection WorldPay offer (if any, but I'm guessing they do) - which could be very good of course.



WorldPay have a very confusing website, but it says elsewhere that in order to accept online payments, you need a merchant account (which they set up for you). If that is the case, Section 75 would apply - WorldPay would just be acting as a gateway.


This is true - I have to complete an annual PCI compliance questionnaire to be able to use WorldPay's services.
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"Write something, even if it's just a suicide note"
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greenbarn



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 5975
Location: The Westmorland Dales, Cumbria

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Essar wrote:
newtimber wrote:
greenbarn wrote:

However, the downside: somebody using WorldPay doesn't get Section 75 protection on a credit card payment - which also applies with Paypal of course - so a direct card payment is a better option for the guest.

In the absence of Section 75 cover, it would be interesting to know what protection WorldPay offer (if any, but I'm guessing they do) - which could be very good of course.



WorldPay have a very confusing website, but it says elsewhere that in order to accept online payments, you need a merchant account (which they set up for you). If that is the case, Section 75 would apply - WorldPay would just be acting as a gateway.


This is true - I have to complete an annual PCI compliance questionnaire to be able to use WorldPay's services.


Interesting - thanks guys. It gets better.

I was basing my understanding on a statement by a legal type about online shopping rights which specifically mentioned Worldpay as being outwith Section 75, but that was April 2015 (and could of course have been wrong then!)

Edited to add:
Their website is confusing isn't it?
I found this tucked away, which is in line with your information.
Quote:
Every business that chooses to accept card payments will require a merchant account. At Worldpay, we can set up your merchant account and provide you with the payment products required to start taking card payments
.
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costa-brava



Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 511
Location: costa brava spain

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To ESSAR about PP. Yes I am hooked up with HL for PP payments but before that I used PP and the 2.1% I pay is for payments made directly to me for independent bookings. My total doesn't reach 15,000 because (as I explained) most people pay cash on arrival for the balance.
To KEVSBORED
I use Transferwise for personal transfers between the UK and here (last one 5000GBP) and it costs peanuts. Service was good but the transfer isn't instant.
To GREENBARN
Paypal has a terrible reputation mostly because, in the past, they froze some peoples' accounts and somebody set up an "I hate PP" type site like people do with Ryanair. I have never had any problems (touch wood) with PP and on the one occasion that somebody tried to scam me they were a big help. All payments are in my account within seconds of the payment. I usually let it climb to about 1000 euros then transfer to my bank.
There is no doubt in my mind that PP are still the best. One of the important aspects is that many, many places accept PP for online payment (including Ryanair) so you can pay things from your PP account with a couple of clicks without giving out credit card details.
With regard to online bookings all payments from Trip/HL come via my PP account. On the other hand H/A sites use Holiday Rent Payment as the intermediary and although I'm signed up with them, they have never impressed me.
I still say, "PP are the best, forget the rest!"
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Oh, would some power the giftie gi'e us
To see ourselves as others see us
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Nemo



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 7030
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

costabravarent wrote:

I still say, "PP are the best, forget the rest!"

Until you've had problems with them and..... had money taken directly from your bank account for goods you didn't order, when you found this missing money it took weeks before it arrived back and it wasn't put back into the bank account from where it was taken, it went back to my Paypal acct with no notice or warning (I effectively had to fund the fraudulent purchase myself - at least a fraudulent credit card purchase gets held and you don't have to pay it)..... instant payments that weren't instant at all and had to be refunded whilst another payment method was taken..... and finally you purchased goods from somebody who was selling goods with a fraudulent description and sending goods that were not what you ordered, only to find you'd forfeited all your Section 75 rights which serve UK consumer rights so very well and Paypal did nothing to help?

Am I ranting, oh yes. Paypal is much disliked by me in case you didn't guess. Wink I'm always hunting for a better solution, only use Paypal when guests insist on it, found an alternative but needed technical help for my website which didn't happen. I shall be putting one of the solutions in and it may be the one above once I've done my sums. Smile

PS Guests who pay for their holiday in more than one payment are also not covered by Paypal under their buyers guarantee, but the guests don't know that either!
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